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Century skeletal fans  Rating:  Rating
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 Posted: Sat Oct 10th, 2009 01:51 am
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Gil Solorzano
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Clifton?

Wow, that's great, I just may do that. First, I'm going to collect, or attempt to collect  parts.

This Emerson is a 14/15 incher with the moose antler blades, very nice looking fan. The finish is in great shape, so are blades and cage.

Missing: gearbox and related oscillator parts. In fact, the worm gear drive from the motor has been sawed off... I'd need to fabricate a new one. The motor runs, but need a push to get running, anything from a loose wire to an open wire in the stator.

Well, I'm going to enjoy my Century before I get started on the Emerson... this one will be a challenge.

Stay tuned.

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 Posted: Sat Oct 10th, 2009 02:09 am
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Gil Solorzano
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Yes Fred, it is me, I do know Chris, and, we did talk about working on Century fans.

As you can see, this was a project that took some years to complete, not because it's intensive, but because other more pressing things tend to get in the way of the things I really like to do, like trying to make a living.

This is the same fan we talked about and you gave me ideas about how to dismantle for restoration.

Well the job's done... if you want to compare notes, let me know

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 Posted: Sat Oct 10th, 2009 05:36 am
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Nick Rodnicki Jr
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I just want to let everyone involved in this thread know, it has been a pleasure to read.   Great info., this is what the hobby is all about.  Congrats to Gil on a great fan.
Now I'll be checking my Century's too.

Nick

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 Posted: Sat Oct 10th, 2009 01:25 pm
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Fred Berry
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Yeah, Century skeletal desk fans seem to be one of the most underrated of all. These are extremely well-made machines. Yes, more often than not, when you get one, it is dirty, grimy, dusty, beat-up. Most of these were used in those large offices with dozens of people working in them, also factory use. Although Century did make some 6-blade S3's and S4's, they mostly made the high-speed 4-wingers. All of my skeletals run cool and very reliably! Great fans. And the cast-iron based versions...among the heaviest desk fans ever made!
An interesting side-note on the S3 motor: The stator can be wound either 4-pole or 6-pole. Most fan motors have fewer winding slots for the windings on a 4-pole and the rotor has fewer cage bars. The S3 motor is set up as a 6 pole-type stator and the rotor has many more cage bars to match, even those wound as 4-pole machines, which is the great majority. Same for the S4 motors.
Gil, your S3 is SWEET! Yeah, you'll see how cool this machine runs and it'll run forever! These make super-great daily runners!

Last edited on Sat Oct 10th, 2009 01:32 pm by Fred Berry

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 Posted: Sat Oct 10th, 2009 08:45 pm
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William Schaub
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There is only one thing I would add to that great restoration:

The re-wound stator has a new look to it that to me just doesn't seem to look right and really stands out. would it be feasible to get some friction tape and put it on to cover up the modern rewind and make it look a lot like it did before it was rewound? I think that would make it perfect if this was achievable.



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 Posted: Sat Nov 28th, 2009 12:05 am
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Steve Stephens
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Cages, cages, cages...are they (Century) all the same??

No, I don't think so. Here's what I found in looking at my Century S-3 and S-4 fans:
12" brass Century cages have a depth of 3-1/8" minus a few hairs. But cast iron base (early) Century S-3 and S-4 cages may all be like mine; 2-5/8" depth.
16" brass Century cages, steel base S-3 depth is the same as the 12" fans: 3-1/8" Cage on my 16" S-4 is 3" less a few hairs.
Other than the depth differences I have not noticed other differences among Century skeletal fan cages or badges. Oh, it's possible that early Century cage and motor badges may have been left in natural brass and not blackened or coated with an oxide. Not sure about this yet. What do your original fans show?



The other day I took delivery of a very clean Century S-3 12" oscillator. Due to a bad headwire connection (I hope) it doesn't run but, otherwise, it's a nice one. The cage didn't require ANY tweaking to make perfect and the badge is excellent and shows the good chance that Century only put an oxide on the badge and not a black paint. Looking at this badge you can see both in person and in the photo a blue cast which would be from the bluing or oxide I think. Also, note that the brass is not polished. Take note all you "restorers" that, if you want to actually restore your fan to how it was when new, you'll not just automatically polish all the brass. Take time to first find out if the fan's brass was polished or had a gilt finish as do the Century fans or used a combination as did the Westy tank (polished blade, dipped and lacquered cage).



Closeup-

Last edited on Fri Jun 25th, 2010 04:00 am by Steve Stephens

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 Posted: Sat Nov 28th, 2009 02:18 am
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Gil Solorzano
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This thread has been very quiet for a while, so thanks for showing some new stuff for us to see.

Also, does anyone know what happened to the Century Electric Company? Out of business? Merged with another company? Changed name? Would be very interesting to see.

If any of you do the Facebook thing, I have a complete photo saga of the S3 project from beginning to end. Just friend me and send  a message indicating that you're a fan nut (heehee).  There are about 30 pics in all.

Stay in touch with your projects

G

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 Posted: Sat Nov 28th, 2009 02:20 am
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Ron Jeter
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I'd say that if it is your fan, do what you want with it --- if you want to restore , then restore or if you want it original,  thats OK tooooo. Restore it the way YOU want it and what looks good to you, I know we have FanJesus and a few others, I have both restored and original in my collection and like them done both ways--bottom line its your decision since you OWN the fan(s). REMEMBER, if you really want to get original get the first one, after the first one nothing else would be original -- lots of ways to look at original!!!

Last edited on Sat Nov 28th, 2009 02:22 am by Ron Jeter

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 Posted: Sat Nov 28th, 2009 02:27 am
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Steve Stephens
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Ron, people have seen nicely "restored" fans with highly polished brass and that usually looks spectacular. However, I wonder how many fan collectors KNOW the original finish that was on the brass of their fans? I bet a whole lot think the brass always or mostly came highly polished.

All I want to do is to state what I have seen and that's that many makers appear to have NOT offered fans and/or certain models with a high polish finish on the brass. Yes, let the owner decide how he wants to do his brass. But also let the owner learn about different options and what was original.

I, for one, do not know how it would be possible to attain the original finish on Century brass or on GE fans from the teens for example. Anyone know how to re-do the original finish which was not highly polished brass?

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 Posted: Sat Nov 28th, 2009 02:31 am
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Ron Jeter
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16" brass Century cages, steel base S-3 depth is the same as the 12" fans: 3-1/8" Cage on my 16" S-4 is 3" less a few hairs.
Hey Steve: Would this be original Cat Hair or Dog Hair!!

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 Posted: Sat Nov 28th, 2009 02:01 pm
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Fred Berry
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I did not know about the bluish-black oxide coating on the cage badge! I have repainted most of mine and polished/clear-lacquered. Also, as stated above, the motor tags on the S4's and very early S3's were just brass without paint or oxide coating. When I pulled my S4 apart for restoration, the stator just slipped right out of the motor case, revealing the rivets for the motor tag. These easily were pushed out to pop the tag off...and I painted it instead of leaving it brass. But you know, I DO like the looks of it. And especially the quotation marks on the Century name...kinda classy.
Another difference I noted on my S4 is that the knob for pitch adjustment is on the opposite side of the trunnion than any other skeletal I've seen. I wonder what serial number they moved it over to the other side?? Steve?

Photo is of my S4 tag, now non-original with black paint instead of bare.

Attached Image (viewed 1388 times):

Tag 2.jpg

Last edited on Sat Nov 28th, 2009 02:02 pm by Fred Berry

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 Posted: Sat Nov 28th, 2009 02:07 pm
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Fred Berry
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I have an oscillator on the way to me that has the top mounted oil cup (or is it a grease cup?)

Steve, the inverted cup is an oil cup. The top portion is filled with waste-packing. There is a short wick that contacts the motor shaft and wicks oil from the packing to the motor shaft. The top of the cup unthreads from the body of the cup so you can add drops of oil to the packing without removing the entire assembly.

Attached Image (viewed 1386 times):

Close rear.jpg

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 Posted: Mon May 3rd, 2010 03:06 pm
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Erich Martin
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what a thread!. As a new S3 owner, this is going to be helpful.

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 Posted: Tue May 4th, 2010 07:12 am
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Matthew Albach
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Fully agree I think these fans are awesome by look and the best part is there start up sound and they do move allot of air here are mine S3's I have 1 more coming this week but I am shopping for an S4 as well

S3-model 15



S3-16 model 153 sealed motor



 

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 Posted: Tue May 4th, 2010 01:04 pm
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Bill Voigt
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quoting post from Brad Chaney on Tue Oct 6th, 2009 -

I have been thinking about the 30hz Century that you had and did some reading. What I have read makes it look like if you increased the voltage to twice what it is rated for it would run fine on 60hz.  This seems very strange to me but appears to be true, by maintaining the same voltage to frequency ratio it will balance the flux in the motor. 

I am not sure what effect this would have on the switching and power cords but with only 200v-220v there should not be significant voltage leakage.

Are there any EEs out there that have worked on this problem before?



Yes - You are correct that the motor would run fine, but at Twice 30 hz speed.

[ the 30 hz Century has a 2 pole motor for 1800 rpm synchronous speed]

It would also be able to deliver twice the hp ( same torque at 2X speed).

BUT it would need different blades - the original blades would need Eight

times the hp at 2X speed (and would generate a loud hurricane).

(See my post from Sun Oct 11th, 2009 04:45 pm) -

http://afca.mywowbb.com/view_topic.php?id=10985&forum_id=1&jump_to=78570#p78570

synchronous speed is proportional to the frequency and to one over

the # of poles.

Also -

flux density in the field and rotor iron goes UP proportional to voltage

and down proportional to frequency, so for normal heating the applied

voltage needs to go Down by whatever the ratio of the actual operating

frequency to the rated (nameplate) frequency.

However if the operating frequency is Higher than the nameplate frequency,

things are not as simple.  IF you have a set of blades that require the same

torque as the original blades at the New Higher frequency synchronous speed

then you can raise applied voltage by the frequency ratio and have a working

fan.   (The hoursepower from the motor and that used by the blades will

go up by the frequency ratio. )

 IF you further reduce the blade pitch so that they require the same HORSEPOWER

as the originals did at the nameplate frequency, and raise applied voltage by the

square root of the frequency ratio, then the fan will deliver identical airflow

(but not identical noise) as it does with the nameplate voltage and frequency

input ( and original blades ).

For operation on lower than nameplate frequency, there is a "brickwall" limitation

set by the fraction operating frequency / nameplate frequency, which limits the

possible motor speed to less than the synchronous speed no matter what voltage

is applied.  If modified blades can be gotten (made) that take the same torque

at the lower speed, somewhat more "breeze" can be obtained.  However, for any

given motor, torque is proportional to current, so heating of the copper and

insulation is a firm limit.  Rewinding is a possibilty for motors with distributed

(slot type) field iron, but the is No Way to turn a 10 pole shaded pole stator

into a 4 pole one.  -- This post was in response to a question on 10 pole 133 hz

pancakes, but is true in general.

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 Posted: Tue May 4th, 2010 01:13 pm
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Fred Berry
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One of my S3's is 50 cycle. Serial# 22510. Does anyone else have a 50 cycle skeletal?

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 Posted: Tue May 4th, 2010 04:30 pm
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Steve Stephens
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Bill, I can just display my 30 cycle S-3 without running it but what about swapping the stator for a 60 cycle S-3 stator?  Would I also have to get a rotor from a 60 cycle motor or are the rotors the same with different frequency stators?  I wouldn't want to modify the blade on the fan.  Thank you for all that explanation Bill.

Fred, I have a 50 cycle S-4 16" stationary lurking among my fan shelves as well as the 30 cycle S-3 12" stationary.

Edit 6-24-10. Another interesting thread on a Century S-3 owned by Bill Shrive here-
http://afca.mywowbb.com/forum1/13798.html

http://www.afcaforum.com/forum1/13798.html

Last edited on Fri Oct 11th, 2013 02:39 am by Steve Stephens

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 Posted: Mon Jun 25th, 2012 02:37 pm
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Aaron Leech
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Steve Stephens wrote: Cages, cages, cages...are they (Century) all the same??

No, I don't think so. Here's what I found in looking at my Century S-3 and S-4 fans:
12" brass Century cages have a depth of 3-1/8" minus a few hairs. But cast iron base (early) Century S-3 and S-4 cages may all be like mine; 2-5/8" depth.
16" brass Century cages, steel base S-3 depth is the same as the 12" fans: 3-1/8" Cage on my 16" S-4 is 3" less a few hairs.
Other than the depth differences I have not noticed other differences among Century skeletal fan cages or badges. Oh, it's possible that early Century cage and motor badges may have been left in natural brass and not blackened or coated with an oxide. Not sure about this yet. What do your original fans show?




 

I have located a S-3 (oscillator) skeletal and it looks to have a cage that is steel and welded.  Am I to assumed it's not original?  If I were to rescue it, how difficult would it be to find a cage?

Attached Image (viewed 1015 times):

Skeleltal1.JPG

Last edited on Mon Jun 25th, 2012 02:56 pm by Aaron Leech

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 Posted: Mon Jun 25th, 2012 03:00 pm
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Nicholas Denney
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Yes, the welded cage is not original. Wrapped steel preceeded it and they lasted into the closed potmetal motors, so the cage is newer than the fan by quite a bit.

Does it have a little round badge like I think it does?

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 Posted: Mon Jun 25th, 2012 03:13 pm
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Aaron Leech
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The badge is missing altogether and the cage is steel (rust evident). The price is right if you guys can convince me cages aren't impossible to come by.

I figured the braizing dated the cage.

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 Posted: Mon Jun 25th, 2012 06:38 pm
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Fred Berry
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The fan in your photo is well worth rescuing...It is a less common model 14 with the inverted rear oiler and heavy notched-fork oscillator. 12" or 16"?

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 Posted: Mon Jun 25th, 2012 11:06 pm
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Aaron Leech
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I'm not sure on it's size.  The seller hasn't replied back to me with shipping quotes.

I noticed the oiler looked different from what has been posted on here and wondered about it. 
Nick and Fred:  thank you for the information! 

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 Posted: Tue Dec 10th, 2013 04:29 pm
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Fred Berry
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Well, this particular thread has been dormant for well over a year! I would love to keep it going!! More skeletals have surfaced since, including a very early S4 stationary and a few oscillator S4's too, these seem to be more common than the S4 stationary's.
Steve, you would be proud...My S4 has developed a sever case of "Patina" and the blades and cage are dull. Probably because I never lacquered them, and also because I run the heck out of it. I do not intend to polish them ever again. Yes, the entire fan is dirty and dusty, but well oiled and runs perfect.
Everybody, please post photos here of Century cast iron fans that you have obtained since this thread was created.

Attached Image (viewed 755 times):

S4 with Patina and Dirt.jpg

Last edited on Tue Dec 10th, 2013 04:30 pm by Fred Berry

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 Posted: Wed May 28th, 2014 10:11 pm
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Wayne Bengston
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My S3 Model 15.   My favorite fan to date, and I have a wide variety of fans.

Attached Image (viewed 738 times):

20140212_214059cen.jpg

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 Posted: Wed May 28th, 2014 10:12 pm
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Wayne Bengston
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without blade and cage

Attached Image (viewed 628 times):

Fotor0528141317lg.jpg

Last edited on Wed May 28th, 2014 10:14 pm by Wayne Bengston

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 Posted: Mon Sep 11th, 2017 12:59 am
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Tom Morel
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Big bump here. I've been conducting some mild reearch into the S3 lineup and found that my stationary S3 is only 87 numbers older than the first fan of Bill's on the first page. I can't get the screenshots I took to post so bear with me here. Mine has no model number, 4 bolt motor, stamped base, and brass ball oiler with brass oil cups. Does anybody have more info about these seemingly early S3's? I'm thinking that it is c.1912 but can't be sure. My serial number is 12113. The tag below is Bill's fan which is serial number 12200

Attached Image (viewed 122 times):

Screen Shot 2017-09-10 at 4.55.27 PM.png

Last edited on Mon Sep 11th, 2017 01:05 am by Tom Morel

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 Posted: Mon Sep 11th, 2017 01:03 am
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Tom Morel
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This is Bill's fan in question. Do you still have this fan Steve?

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Screen Shot 2017-09-10 at 4.55.13 PM.png

Last edited on Mon Sep 11th, 2017 01:03 am by Tom Morel

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 Posted: Mon Sep 11th, 2017 04:22 am
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Steve Stephens
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Tom Morel wrote: This is Bill's fan in question. Do you still have this fan Steve?
Tom, I sold the fan you are asking about.   I've had to downsize the number of skeletals that I had with Bills' fans added to my own.  Usually a non-oscillator fan, I found that the Century skeletal oscillators oscillated so slowly and smoothly that I decided to keep a few of them in addition to a stationary model or two.

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 Posted: Mon Sep 11th, 2017 05:07 am
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Russ Huber
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S4 and S3 cast base split phase desk fans "MAY" of both shared the market in 12? 

The patent was filed in Jan. of 12 and shows all the characteristics of the CAST BASE split phase S3. 

Attached Image (viewed 95 times):

US1122633-0.png

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 Posted: Mon Sep 11th, 2017 05:08 am
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Tom Morel
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Ah I see. Any thoughts on the age of these close fans?

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 Posted: Mon Sep 11th, 2017 05:13 am
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Russ Huber
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S4 models it appears ruled the market 11 and 12.  The cast base S3 it appears hit the market in 12 and remained until 13 season.  Drawn steel Century desk fan bases have first electrical trade mention in 14.

Attached Image (viewed 92 times):

2Centurys.png

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 Posted: Mon Sep 11th, 2017 05:22 am
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Tom Morel
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Thank you Russ. I'm thinking 1914 or shortly thereafter on mine.

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 Posted: Mon Sep 11th, 2017 05:31 am
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Russ Huber
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Tom Morel wrote: I'm thinking 1914 or shortly thereafter on mine.
I bet 14 if your fan has the earlier SPLIT PHASE rotor minus the centrifugal switch components.

Attached Image (viewed 86 times):

14.png

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 Posted: Mon Sep 11th, 2017 05:54 am
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Tom Morel
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It indeed has the earlier split phase rotor. Thanks again Russ for all your help.

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