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| Moderated by: Steve Cunningham, Stan Adams, Rod Rogers | Page: 1 2   |
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| Westinghouse Lively-Aire | Rate Topic |
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| Posted: Thu Mar 27th, 2008 03:24 am |
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1st Post |
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Nicholas Denney Guest 
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I took a look underneath my new Lively-Aire and I was surprised to find....nothing! What's missing here? Surely Westinghouse didn't send the fans out of the factory like this! Attached Image (viewed 8038 times):
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| Posted: Thu Mar 27th, 2008 03:43 am |
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2nd Post |
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Myles Gifford Guest 
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nothings mising i think yours is a cheeper model it has the same base mounting points for all the parts to make a 2 speed like mine but yours is still a nice fan Attached Image (viewed 6763 times):
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| Posted: Thu Mar 27th, 2008 03:45 am |
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3rd Post |
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Nicholas Denney Guest
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But that's just the point... mine IS a two speeder!
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| Posted: Thu Mar 27th, 2008 03:46 am |
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4th Post |
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Myles Gifford Guest
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where is your switch at
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| Posted: Thu Mar 27th, 2008 04:02 am |
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5th Post |
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Nicholas Denney Guest
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It's on the side of the motor... Attached Image (viewed 7364 times):
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| Posted: Thu Mar 27th, 2008 04:06 am |
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6th Post |
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Myles Gifford Guest
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wow i dont know then yours have a speed coil
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| Posted: Thu Mar 27th, 2008 04:14 am |
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7th Post |
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Nicholas Denney Guest
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I'm beginning to think that someone (someone highly skilled at that) has modified my fan... You can see dirt from where there was a headwire with a grommet around it at one time and it looks like the holes for the switch and cord have been sealed up and painted over to match the original paint exactly. As for the speed coil, there is none... both speeds are wound into the motor like a Chinese fan!
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| Posted: Thu Mar 27th, 2008 04:19 am |
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8th Post |
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Myles Gifford Guest
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im starting to think the same thing
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| Posted: Thu Mar 27th, 2008 04:25 am |
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9th Post |
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Nicholas Denney Guest
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Hold on a sec! I just peeked in the gallery.... the 12LA5A there looks the same as mine - it has the switch on the side and the cord is looped out of the neck of the fan. But, is it a two speeder too??
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| Posted: Thu Mar 27th, 2008 04:33 am |
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10th Post |
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Myles Gifford Guest
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i think yours might be a newer model of my 12LA4 which has all the stuff in the base which means yours in technogilacly advanced 
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| Posted: Thu Mar 27th, 2008 05:42 am |
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11th Post |
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Austin B Ko Guest
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Nicholas I have that same fan,i dont recall seeing anything under the base though. Attached Image (viewed 6505 times):
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| Posted: Fri Mar 28th, 2008 01:13 am |
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12th Post |
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Jeff Rusnak AFCA Member 
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Hey guys believe it or not Westinghouse did actually manufacture later Livelyaire fans like the one Nicholas has pictured.I know because I owned several of them years back (long gone now, back then they were too new for me) now I collect em.Though I don't have the later ones without the base cover and missing speed coil in the pics.If you look at the bases in the pics you'll see the blanks where the power cord and switch would normally be mounted are not punched out.The motor wire went to the base and was looped around a straint relief then came back out.The motors were wired for two speeds thus the switch mounted on the motor and not the base.Even though these fans were cheapened they were the last of the good fans from Westinghouse. It seems Westinghouse in the late 60's was cutting cost and the way to do it was to eliminate as many parts as possible and be more cost effective.Fans back then were falling in sales due to the fact alot of people were going to A/C. So those Westinghouse fans were the last of the good ones before the stamped steel avacado and white Westinghouse table fans came out around 1970.The only parts used from the Livelyaires were the blades.The motors looked like they were from the Jack Frost/Knapp Monarch line of fans.The 12's were 2 speeds and the motor was wound for that with the switch on the motor like the Livelyaires of the 60's I don't think long after that Westinghouse stopped making fans. Hope this helps,Jeff.
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| Posted: Fri Mar 28th, 2008 04:35 am |
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13th Post |
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Nicholas Denney Guest
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Thank You for explaining!  It does seem odd that Westinghouse sold what would have appeared to be an incomplete fan and I don't doubt that the first people to buy them wondered the same! The least they could have done was run the cord through the base and kept the switch where it was! Hehehe... that's progress!  Last edited on Fri Mar 28th, 2008 04:37 am by Nicholas Denney |
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| Posted: Sat Jul 19th, 2008 06:07 pm |
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14th Post |
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Tom Dreesen AFCA Member 
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OK you Lively-Aire experts, I need some help. I have the "standard" 2 speed version. When I got it several months ago, the blade would hardly turn by hand. I remember squirting oil most everywhere and then it sat on a shelf until now. The blade now turns fairly freely, and the fan does run, albiet more slowly than I think it should and it doesn't want to oscillate. I don't see an oil hole, nor is it clear how to break it down. I want to spiff it up and give it to my daughter (fits her decor). Where to start???
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| Posted: Sat Jul 19th, 2008 06:51 pm |
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15th Post |
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Myles Gifford Guest
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Tom on the bottem to take the cover of the motor off there should be 4 flat ebge screws to up front 2 close to the rear take those out you motor should come apart and youll also be able to take the cage apart but it is a pain to get back togeathe as nicholas stated in a topic i made
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| Posted: Sat Jul 19th, 2008 07:43 pm |
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16th Post |
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Keith Cordt AFCA Member 
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Does your lively aire have the ridges/vents on top of the motor? (I thought they all did-but I dunno) If so, find a flashlight..... At least on the 2 I have, there are oil holes hidden in the ridges. Actually, the front oil hole is pretty easy to see....but the back one is hidden deep down in a well in the center ridge. I didn't know this for a long time-and found them by accident!
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| Posted: Sat Jul 19th, 2008 08:01 pm |
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17th Post |
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Tom Dreesen AFCA Member
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Yep, I see them now. Thanks
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| Posted: Sun Jul 20th, 2008 12:29 am |
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18th Post |
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Jeremy Pruitt Guest 
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I have one of these too. It has the original baby blue paint, baby blue cord, and blue "see-thru" plastic blades. It runs great and I use it everyday in the living room!
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| Posted: Sun Jul 20th, 2008 02:03 am |
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19th Post |
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John Fengel AFCA Member 
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I "cleaned" up one about a year ago. They are a bear to assemble but this one runs very cool and very quiet. Attached Image (viewed 7257 times):
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| Posted: Sun Jul 20th, 2008 02:08 am |
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20th Post |
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Jeremy Pruitt Guest
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WOW! The red one looks awesome!! Did you have to tape of each individual ridge not to get red paint on them? You are right though, they are headache to reassemble.
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| Posted: Sun Jul 20th, 2008 04:43 am |
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21st Post |
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Erik Bakken Guest 
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GREAT JOB ON THE RED ONE!!!! That looks really nice in red!  My 10 LA has the cord going into the hole, through a strain relief clip, and back out as mentioned earlier. Must have been put there to keep the cord from getting ripped out of the motor.
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| Posted: Sun Jul 20th, 2008 04:53 am |
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22nd Post |
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Tom Dreesen AFCA Member
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Nice. That blade is original? I thought they all had the plastic blades, esp with the side switch. Here is the one I am working on. Clearly a 2 speed, but only working on what must be low speed. Bad coil? Bad switch? No, I don't have testing equipment. Also, it is not coming apart after removing the screws. Attached Image (viewed 6694 times):
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| Posted: Sun Jul 20th, 2008 05:13 am |
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23rd Post |
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John Fengel AFCA Member
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Did you have to tape of each individual ridge not to get red paint on them? No, I polished them before painting. Then I primed it and removed the primer, and polished the ribs again. After the final color coats were applied, I removed the paint and polished again. The blade is original, just polished. I had a couple with the plastic blades that I used for parts. I removed the badge from the cage which was chromed and in decent shape. John
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| Posted: Sun Jul 20th, 2008 05:27 am |
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24th Post |
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Russ Huber AFCA Member 
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Tom Dreesen wrote: Nice. That blade is original? I thought they all had the plastic blades, esp with the side switch. Here is the one I am working on. Clearly a 2 speed, but only working on what must be low speed. Bad coil? Bad switch? No, I don't have testing equipment. Tom, The funky plastic blade was a 50s patent. The man....Gustav Koch. He had to be a contract engineer for Westinghouse. He had fan patents from the 30s on down into the 50s...early 60s? He was the man behind the Livelyaire motor. The metal blade design was tail end of WW11 ...then came the plastic in the late 40s- 50s? I have a number of these fans in storage....but yet...have not opened one up...yet. Gustav designed the later low budget and possibly the better earlier motor in the mobileaires. I think he designed the d amn mobileaire as well. Those line of mobile wheely fans were HOT moving into the 50s as Emerson had their version(Caryl Lindberg) as well amoungst other fan manufacturers. Koch's patents show pedestals and poweraire fans... yada yada yada. Look into him. http://www.google.com/patents?id=oOBHAAAAEBAJ&dq=2603674
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| Posted: Sun Jul 20th, 2008 05:31 am |
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25th Post |
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Nicholas Denney Guest
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Tom Dreesen wrote: Nice. That blade is original? I thought they all had the plastic blades, esp with the side switch. Here is the one I am working on. Clearly a 2 speed, but only working on what must be low speed. Bad coil? Bad switch? No, I don't have testing equipment. There are even more variations of this fan - another has a polished metal blade with a big, flat red button in the middle and yet another had the same blade, except it was painted tan. That is strange that yours isn't coming apart - mine usually open with a POP! when all the screws are removed. There should be four, 2 in front, 2 in back.
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| Posted: Sun Jul 20th, 2008 05:31 am |
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26th Post |
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Stan Adams Super Moderator 
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Wow, that is fine John! I have never seen the blade that shiny either. That is SWEET!
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| Posted: Sun Jul 20th, 2008 05:34 am |
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27th Post |
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Russ Huber AFCA Member
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Sorry John! that is a beauty! I remember and ebay Livelyaire fire engine red with the "Coca-Cola" label on her motor housing. I think it sold for $1,000,000 dollars. Ya...I remember it well. 
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| Posted: Sun Jul 20th, 2008 05:03 pm |
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28th Post |
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Tom Dreesen AFCA Member
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There were 2 in the front, the 2 in the back were already gone. She won't open up. I have done some judicious tapping and pounding and nothing. Can't see where to get a pry bar between the halves. May have to resort to the Goodrich "Thor's hammer".
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| Posted: Sun Jul 20th, 2008 08:47 pm |
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29th Post |
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Nicholas Denney Guest
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Tom Dreesen wrote: There were 2 in the front, the 2 in the back were already gone. If you've actually seen two empty screw holes in the back then they must be missing but otherwise, I'd say you're missing something - without the two rear screws, the spring pushing against the gearbox would have caused a visible gap between the halves of the motor - sounds like someone could have glued the cover back on..... Photo: Rear housing screws removed - front screws are still fully tightened down Attached Image (viewed 6336 times): Last edited on Sun Jul 20th, 2008 09:04 pm by Nicholas Denney |
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| Posted: Mon Jul 21st, 2008 12:05 am |
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30th Post |
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Tom Dreesen AFCA Member
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Well, once I got the dirt out of the holes, they were there  . She's open, and filthy, and has stripped threads off the shaft. That is part of the entire shaft (see arrow), correct? She will be a non-oscillator I guess. Attached Image (viewed 6418 times):
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| Posted: Mon Jul 21st, 2008 12:35 am |
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31st Post |
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Nicholas Denney Guest
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Tom Dreesen wrote: Well, once I got the dirt out of the holes, they were there I don't see what you mean by stripped threads but the rotor/shaft is one whole piece. As you may have discovered, everything simply lifts out - the bearings, stator, rotor etc. This is why the fan is so  difficult to put back together, as you will have to hold the everything in the motor in place while the fan is upside down, using your free hand to try and put the screws back in. Alternatively, you could just wrap the motor with duct tape while you struggle to put the screws back in.
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| Posted: Mon Jul 21st, 2008 12:44 am |
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32nd Post |
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Tom Dreesen AFCA Member
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Stripped just enough that when it gets to the reversing position, it doesn't engage. A fine example of "not worth messing with". The amount of work needed to bring back a cheapie many times is just the same as "old iron". I am going to wire the switch to bypass the "coil" so at least it will run at full speed.
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| Posted: Mon Jul 21st, 2008 01:08 am |
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33rd Post |
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Nicholas Denney Guest
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Tom Dreesen wrote: Stripped just enough that when it gets to the reversing position, it doesn't engage. A fine example of "not worth messing with". The amount of work needed to bring back a cheapie many times is just the same as "old iron". I am going to wire the switch to bypass the "coil" so at least it will run at full speed. "Reversing position"?? It's extremely unlikely that the shaft itself is stripped because the gear running off of it is plastic!! You'd probably find a cheap plastic gear to replace it for $1 or less. Here's mine.... so clean and pretty! Attached Image (viewed 6488 times):
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| Posted: Mon Jul 21st, 2008 01:15 am |
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34th Post |
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Myles Gifford Guest
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makes me want to take mine apart and join the club of takeing the westy apart
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| Posted: Mon Jul 21st, 2008 01:18 am |
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35th Post |
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Tom Dreesen AFCA Member
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I see, OK it's the second gear. Anybody have an extra? Last edited on Mon Jul 21st, 2008 01:21 am by Tom Dreesen |
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| Posted: Mon Jul 21st, 2008 05:45 pm |
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36th Post |
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Jeff Rusnak AFCA Member
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Hey Guys,Any of you coming to fan Fair ?? I'll be there and it's alot easier to show you in person rather than a long string of posts on the workings of the Westinghouse livelyaire's.I can't bring one along as I'm flying out and due to airport security I think it would be awash.Any way I would be glad to give a session on these fans as they seem to be a mystery to everyone.If some of you that are driving to Fan Fair bring a livelyaire along (10" or 12") we'll have some fan fun. I am by no means an expert, nor am I a guru,but I have worked on many Livelyaires over the years and have seen alot of them.I currently have about 50 Livelyaires in my fan collection in various condtions from mint to very sad condtion.They are very under apprecieated and overlooked fans but never the less good fans and lend themselves easily to customtmizing. A short history.The earliest Livelyaires 10"came out about 1940,(or there abouts) aluminum blade,foil badge,tag info on the oscillating arm.The colors were green (yes I said green the very early ones were green) then a blue/grayish color,and a beige/ivory color.Then came the mauve colored Livelyaires with the silver color guards and aluminum blade about 1950.Then the beige plastic (phelonic) blade as Westinghouse refers to it came out in 1954.the fan was the mauve color,chrome guard,burgundy color badge with the info,and the oscillator arm still had info on it.Then about 1957 Westinghouse made a baby blue Livelyaire with a chrome guard with gold foil badge,and a translucent blue blade (the nicest Livelyaire color combo if you ask me).Then the last livelyaires about 1964 were aqua in color with a white guard,with a grey foil badge,no switch just plug in.The 12"s were pretty much the same being a blue/grayish color on the earliest.Then the beige/ivory color with maroon badge and center cap on an aluminum blade.Then the mauve color with tan metal blade,chrome guard,maroon foil badge.Then the mauve color with the plastic beige blade,chrome guard.Then the baby blue with translucent blue blade,chrome guard with gold foil badge.Then the mauve color with a white guards were about the last 12"s I can recall.The 12"s all had the two speed switch on the base till about 1960,then I think the switch was on the motor from that point on.Yes the motor was still a two speed. To answer a few quick questions posted in this string. (1) Yes the livelyaires can be lubricated,the oil holes are in the center ribs on top.one just behind the front bearing,one about mid way back they have always been there. (2) there are four screws under the motor that hold the motor halves together.Remove them completly and the halves should come apart.Tapping with a plastic mallet (AH GENTLY !!)might help.Old hardened grease sometimes keeps it from opening easily.Just be sure to remember where the parts go back,otherwise YES IT CAN BE A BIG PAIN GETTING BACK TOGETHER !!(3) The oscillating gears are a fibre material.If you can find a donor fan with good ones it's an easy swap. (4) Yes Westinghouse did make the 12" without any parts in the base.I think it was a way to cut cost and still have a competive fan without sacrificing performance ?? (5) Once your Livelyaire is all cleaned,lubed,fixed,and back together you'll have a nice smooth running quiet fan  Hope I've helped answer some of your questions !!! Jeff.Last edited on Mon Jul 21st, 2008 06:11 pm by Jeff Rusnak |
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| Posted: Tue Jul 22nd, 2008 03:45 am |
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37th Post |
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Ron Powell Guest 
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You sure the gear teeth arent just clogged up with muddy grease? I'd clean everything up first, then give it a try and see what happens. I've had em like this and got them working just by cleaning them up.
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| Posted: Tue Jul 22nd, 2008 03:58 am |
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38th Post |
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Nicholas Denney Guest
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Jeff Rusnak wrote: (5) Once your Livelyaire is all cleaned,lubed,fixed,and back together you'll have a nice smooth running quiet fan Ever since I discovered how well fans will run when you wax their bearings, I've done it to all of my fans and it has noticeably increased their operating performance and decreased their operating noise. 
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| Posted: Tue Jul 22nd, 2008 04:34 am |
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39th Post |
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William Schaub Guest
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Nicholas Denney wrote: Jeff Rusnak wrote:(5) Once your Livelyaire is all cleaned,lubed,fixed,and back together you'll have a nice smooth running quiet fan How exactly do you wax the bearings? what type of wax do you use and how do you apply it? I woudl think the wax would come off and clog the bearings.
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| Posted: Tue Jul 22nd, 2008 05:17 am |
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40th Post |
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Nicholas Denney Guest
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Sigh...... I new I shoulda' kept this secret! Anyway, there isn't much to it - use a Q-tip to swab some wax (I use Meguiar's Cleaner Wax) into the bearing, and then find something to polish it out with. I like to use a screwdriver covered with a rag to stick into the bearing and wipe it out. You'd be surprised how much dirt you can get out of some bearings! When the bearings are clean, they will LOOK clean - I've gotten bearings polished to the point where they were shinier than the brass blades on a fan! I have experimentally run fans "dry" after giving the bearings the cleanout - without a drop of oil to lubricate them, and they have run as good, if not better than when they were actually oiled!
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