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AFCA Forums > Antique Fan Collectors Association > Buy-Sell-Trade > 1903 Western Electric bi polar badge and or cage
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AFCA Forums > Antique Fan Collectors Association > Buy-Sell-Trade > 1903 Western Electric bi polar badge and or cage | |||||
| Moderated by: Steve Cunningham, Stan Adams, Rod Rogers | Page: 1 2   |
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| 1903 Western Electric bi polar badge and or cage | Rating: 
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| Posted: Mon Mar 9th, 2015 03:45 am |
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1st Post |
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Jim Dunn AFCA Member
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I know this is a long shot,but you never know  Has anyone in the club reproduced these badges and cage or have one for sale? Cheers J Attached Image (viewed 1997 times):
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| Posted: Mon Mar 9th, 2015 05:50 am |
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2nd Post |
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Stephen Sanders Guest 
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I don't have one but to sell wish someone would reproduce the cage for the W E Bipolar and also the open badge Jandus. Good luck ! I hope you find what you need
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| Posted: Tue Mar 10th, 2015 01:46 am |
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3rd Post |
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Gary Hagan Guest 
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I will third that motion. I may be able to help with making the center badge.
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| Posted: Tue Mar 10th, 2015 02:16 am |
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4th Post |
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Chad Hunter AFCA Member
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I fourth that motion. Gary if you do reproduce it count me in for 1 or 2. Thanks Chad
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| Posted: Tue Mar 10th, 2015 02:30 am |
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5th Post |
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Jim Dunn AFCA Member
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Thanks for your input fellasI have approached Donald Coleman and he said he can make me one by double etching it but it won't be the correct thickness. I am thinking of making it in two pieces (front from Donald ) and the back section that holds the cage wires,then solder them together. My fan is nickel plated so I will plate it last. Appart from making a casting (impossible without an original badge)I don't know any other way to do it.
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| Posted: Tue Mar 10th, 2015 03:09 am |
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6th Post |
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Gary Hagan Guest
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I was going to experiment with electro etching. Also I can make a 3D model and print a center badge which could be used to make a sand casting. I would need an original for measurements, thickness, and to match fonts. The dimples in the relief would be a challenge. I think that casting would be fairly easy given its flat on one side.
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| Posted: Tue Mar 10th, 2015 03:25 am |
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7th Post |
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Jim Dunn AFCA Member
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Terry Fisher was kind enough to send me some measurements.Diameter 76mm, Thickness 3.62mm(not including the cage wire supports),Width of band with writing 7.35mm Unfortunately I don't have a picture of the back of the badge I believe it would be very similar to a Jandus cage badge. I can post one of that when I get home tonight. Last edited on Tue Mar 10th, 2015 03:30 am by Jim Dunn |
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| Posted: Tue Mar 10th, 2015 04:01 am |
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8th Post |
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Gary Hagan Guest
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Those dimensions are for 12" cage correct?
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| Posted: Tue Mar 10th, 2015 04:10 am |
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9th Post |
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Stephen Sanders Guest
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I don't have a WE cage yet or I would offer to let you copy the badge.
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| Posted: Tue Mar 10th, 2015 04:22 am |
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10th Post |
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Rich Becher AFCA Member 
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I think the problem with reproducing that badge in anything but cast brass will be reproducing the "claws" on the rear that pinch and grasp each cage wire. Attached Image (viewed 1629 times): Last edited on Tue Mar 10th, 2015 04:24 am by Rich Becher |
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| Posted: Tue Mar 10th, 2015 05:19 am |
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11th Post |
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Jim Kovar AFCA Member 
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Jim Dunn wrote: I know this is a long shot,but you never know Hi Jim. Just an idea, here... Maybe a business that specialises in cast pewter products such as belt buckles, plaques, award medals etc. could replicate WE badges. http://www.mastercast.com.au/#!mastercast-australia-about-us/c1jqd http://www.mastercast.com.au/#!custom-made-corporate-medals/c1xo8 Attached Image (viewed 1773 times):
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| Posted: Tue Mar 10th, 2015 05:22 am |
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12th Post |
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Gary Hagan Guest
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5 minutes of fooling around. Chicago and New York are the wrong direction but you get the idea. I can add the borders and dimples and convert to a 3D image Attached Image (viewed 1776 times):
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| Posted: Tue Mar 10th, 2015 05:23 am |
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13th Post |
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Gary Hagan Guest
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Once we have a 3D model we can print a 3D Brass model at shapeways. It will probably be kinda pricy but it could incorporate the cage attachment tabs.[size=.][size=.][size= http://www.shapeways.com/blog/archives/2273-You-Brass-ked,-We-Listened-Introducing-Polished-Brass-and-Raw-Brass-to-Shapeways-3D-Printing-Materials.html.][size=.][size=.][size=They first print castable wax pattern then cast the brass.. one can make an exact 3D model with a 3D scanner. I use skanect a 3D scanner that uses an Xbox 360 kinect scanner. Check out a video demonstration.][size=.][size=.] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbcnRgVNsZk Last edited on Tue Mar 10th, 2015 05:42 am by Gary Hagan |
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| Posted: Tue Mar 10th, 2015 05:27 am |
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14th Post |
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Stephen Sanders Guest
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Jim Kovar: You may get at least honrable mention from the Nobel Prize commitee if your idea works for the badges. That looks like a dang good idea to me  Last edited on Tue Mar 10th, 2015 05:28 am by Stephen Sanders |
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| Posted: Tue Mar 10th, 2015 07:30 am |
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15th Post |
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Jim Kovar AFCA Member
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Gary Hagan wrote: ...the cage attachment tabs. Very similar to the tabs that secure the bail pictured below. I'm pretty sure these tabs were straight when casted and then bent around the bail. Attached Image (viewed 1779 times):
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| Posted: Tue Mar 10th, 2015 07:44 am |
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16th Post |
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Gary Hagan Guest
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Good find Jim. I'll check them out.
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| Posted: Tue Mar 10th, 2015 11:07 am |
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17th Post |
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Cory Baughn Guest 
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If you guys can't find it, you make it. That is why I love the fellas here, nothing stops y'all from making it the correct way. I would rather have one of your badges than an original if this all works out because of all the work that went into it. I would be into getting one just to have in storage though. I will have a bipolar fan one day, and I suspect that it will be a Western Electric since they seem to be the most available one, and it won't have a badge or cage I also figure. The cage can be made anytime, but not a badge without all this effort all over again, of which I am not capable. What is an estimated price? A round about number. BTW, I'ma getting over to your place next time you're free Stephen. I want to see your collection and bipolar. 
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| Posted: Tue Mar 10th, 2015 01:27 pm |
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18th Post |
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Jim Dunn AFCA Member
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Thanks everyone for your help and input.Rich....The picture of the back of the cage badge is great.Gary..Thanks mate...yes,the cage is for a 12 inch fan.I'm not sure what the costs will be to make it your way,but it would be interesting to see.Jim...Your idea is a great one to use someone like mastercast . I will do some homework..probably expensive ,but worth a shot.Cheers J
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| Posted: Wed Mar 11th, 2015 12:43 am |
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19th Post |
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Jim Kovar AFCA Member
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Jim, I did a quick forum search for cageless WE bipolar fan stumps and found a few. I'm sure there are more out there needing cages, the badges of course, being the principal parts. I'm sure the bulk of the cost of reproducing the badges would be in the design layout and set up. Maybe others here would like a badge (or more) to help defray the per unit cost. Louis Luu, a few years back, made a similar request. http://afcaforum.com/view_topic.php?id=15919 Attached Image (viewed 1729 times): Last edited on Wed Mar 11th, 2015 01:20 am by Jim Kovar |
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| Posted: Wed Mar 11th, 2015 12:51 am |
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20th Post |
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Gary Hagan Guest
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It will take a bit more time to get all the dimensions and details just right but I believe I can model the badge and send the file to mastercast or any other 3D print house to get it made. Let's get a list of folks that want one to see if it will be worth the trouble. Attached Image (viewed 1733 times):
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| Posted: Wed Mar 11th, 2015 01:15 am |
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21st Post |
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Jim Kovar AFCA Member
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Gary Hagan wrote: Let's get a list of folks that want one to see if it will be worth the trouble. Jim and Gary, since many in our association infrequently or never look at the forum, may I suggest a paragraph or two explaining your mutual endeavor, with pictures of course, be submitted to The Fan Collector Magazine.
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| Posted: Wed Mar 11th, 2015 02:24 am |
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22nd Post |
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Stephen Sanders Guest
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I will take at least 1 and more if necessary to help make it happen
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| Posted: Wed Mar 11th, 2015 04:18 am |
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23rd Post |
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Jim Dunn AFCA Member
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Thanks Gary...great work! Jim..good suggestion..the AFCA magazine add I have been in touch with mastercast and awaiting a reply. I will of course take at least 1 Last edited on Wed Mar 11th, 2015 04:19 am by Jim Dunn |
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| Posted: Wed Mar 11th, 2015 10:11 am |
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24th Post |
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Jim Kovar AFCA Member
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Jim, I was doing a Google image search, trying to find a decent picture of the back side a WE cast ring badge, all to no avail. While scrolling down a ways, the pictures were becoming less and less relevant. Then I had one heck of a scare... Attached Image (viewed 1611 times): Last edited on Wed Mar 11th, 2015 10:30 am by Jim Kovar |
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| Posted: Wed Mar 11th, 2015 10:16 am |
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25th Post |
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Jim Kovar AFCA Member
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I wrote: Then I had one heck of a scare... Attached Image (viewed 1687 times):
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| Posted: Wed Mar 11th, 2015 10:22 am |
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26th Post |
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Cory Baughn Guest
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I will take one if the cost isn't substantial. Below $75 or so. If I don't use it in the next few years, I can always sell it to another member in need. I almost would like to have it solely for that purpose that way someone in the future, if not me, will have a cake of a time finding a badge. Charge what I give for it and ship. Boom. If they are around $60, I may take two. I would almost guarantee you could eBay them and list them internationally and make a profit. Last edited on Wed Mar 11th, 2015 10:24 am by Cory Baughn |
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| Posted: Wed Mar 11th, 2015 12:26 pm |
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27th Post |
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Jim Dunn AFCA Member
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Jim... What was that doing there?That's ugly...put it away!
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| Posted: Wed Mar 11th, 2015 02:35 pm |
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28th Post |
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Rich Becher AFCA Member
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Jim Kovar wrote: trying to find a decent picture of the back Removed my cage for a better shot..... Attached Image (viewed 1636 times):
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| Posted: Wed Mar 11th, 2015 05:10 pm |
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29th Post |
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Jim Dunn AFCA Member
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Cheers Rich
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| Posted: Wed Mar 11th, 2015 05:23 pm |
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30th Post |
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Stephen Sanders Guest
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Thanks to everyone trying to make this happen.
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| Posted: Wed Mar 11th, 2015 06:16 pm |
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31st Post |
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Gary Hagan Guest
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As long as I can match the font and character spacing this should be fairly easy to produce. I see cost as being the only barrier. At a minimum i can have them print in wax for a decent price and we can send the wax to someone that has experience casting. I have researched and it seems fairly easy. Wood box, sand, crucible , tongs and fire....
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| Posted: Wed Mar 11th, 2015 06:16 pm |
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32nd Post |
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Gary Hagan Guest
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That is a picture of the "Little Zephyr Guy" is he a member?
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| Posted: Wed Mar 11th, 2015 08:31 pm |
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33rd Post |
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Steve Cunningham Administrator 
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There were three badges on the Western Electric Bipolars. The earliest was the blue porcelain star in the center of the ring. I just got in an 1899 Western Electric Fan Catalog, and it shows WE using that badge in '99. Then came the open center ring. After that came the solid cast badge with WE cast into it. I think I have seen a WE bipolar with the solid badge. I know the solid badge was used on the convertible base models that came out about 1905.
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| Posted: Tue Jan 26th, 2016 05:47 am |
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34th Post |
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Dan Nguyen AFCA Member 
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Please let know, the black materials to wrap the outside for two coils magnet wire of Western Bi-polar is what ?
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| Posted: Tue Jan 26th, 2016 03:53 pm |
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35th Post |
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Chad Baker AFCA Member 
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I have one with original wrap and it appears to be a thin fabric cloth like material.
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| Posted: Thu Jan 28th, 2016 01:23 am |
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36th Post |
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Dave Dalsin Guest
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I need one if it' less than $100. Good luck!!! Dave
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| Posted: Thu Jan 28th, 2016 02:10 am |
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37th Post |
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Stephen Sanders Guest
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If someone makes a WE bipolar badge/cage I am interested in buying one.
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| Posted: Thu Jan 28th, 2016 02:20 am |
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38th Post |
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Chad Hunter AFCA Member
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Stephen Sanders wrote: If someone makes a WE bipolar badge/cage I am interested in buying one. Count me in for at least 1 and possibly 2 also
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| Posted: Thu Jan 28th, 2016 11:14 am |
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39th Post |
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Jim Dunn AFCA Member
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I'd be interested in a badge too. Donald Colman did his best and has reproduced me one but it has lost definition in the acidic process. I believe this needs to have a sand/silicone mould made from a real badge.The back cage wires would be part of the moulding. If we had an original it could be done. I don't have the experience to do it myself but if we get enough people needing one it could be a cost effective process to have them made professionally. Anyone else need one?
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| Posted: Thu Jan 28th, 2016 04:37 pm |
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40th Post |
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Ted Kaczor AFCA Member 
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I could build cages as long as I have badges...or someone sent me a original donor to copy and cast it, than I'll take care of the whole thing.
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