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Dayton Type 50 Start System  Rate Topic 
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 Posted: Mon Sep 7th, 2020 02:31 pm
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Jim Humphrey
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Just a quick question, Mark McCormick posted in BST to buy an early Dayton, which caused me to look at my notes on the Dayton Type 50 I've got.    My question is how does the Type 50 start using only two headwires, but does not have the traditional shaded pole I'm used to seeing and doesn't use a centrifugal switch either.  I think it involves some extra stator coils, but just wanted some confirmation or explanation.  Here's a pic of the stator arrangement, and I think there are two innermost coils at roughly the 1 o'clock and 7 o'clock positions, plus four additional coils at the 2, 4,8,and 10 o'clock positions.  Finally, there are the four main stator coils at the 3, 6, 9 and 12 o'clock positions.
My theory is that instead of using the heavy straps/bars of the "traditional' shaded pole system, Dayton put in some additional coils to provide an asymmetrical magnetic field to get the motor to self start.  Probably more expensive than a regular shaded pole system, but maybe they had patent problems?

Here's the pic:




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 Posted: Mon Sep 7th, 2020 02:52 pm
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Rick Huckabee
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I think , looks like , Start windings in there,  smaller wire ,can see them in your pic. Start windings get rotor turning  stay in circuit , runs like a shaded-pole motor. Using windings to create a shaded pole . Many CF's have  this also .I remember seeing one like that at Mardi Gras meet several years ago. Different for sure, but cool.

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 Posted: Mon Sep 7th, 2020 04:22 pm
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Jim Humphrey
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Thanks Rick, just wanted to verify that there was no magic or voodoo going on in there!  To me, it seems a little weak on startup even on the High (first step on switch) setting.  But it actually will start on Low, just takes a long time and I don't like to put that much stress on the windings.  And Low speed is pretty slow.  Thanks again Rick.
Jim

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 Posted: Tue Sep 8th, 2020 01:16 pm
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Steven P Dempsey
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TYPE 50 Dayton - - 2 wires, my Colonial has 2 wires also (That is coming to the meet)


Attached Image (viewed 117 times):

Colonial 16.jpg

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 Posted: Tue Sep 8th, 2020 01:52 pm
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Michael Rathberger
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Your Colonial has a start switch. Different animal.

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 Posted: Wed Sep 16th, 2020 01:59 am
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David Hoatson
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The start windings are positioned at a different angle than the start windings. Maybe 15 degrees off. 
The AC voltage is a sine wave:




To get the fan spinning in the correct direction, the starting coils need to be fed a sine wave that is delayed or advanced 15 degrees relative to the run windings. Together, the two coils make a “rotating magnetic field”. 

It turns out that the current through a capacitor is a sine wave 90 degrees ahead of the voltage and the current through a coil (inductor) is 90 degrees behind the voltage. This is called “phase shift”:




But, the resistance of the coil changes the phase angle shift to less than 90 degrees. 


So, to drive the starting coil with a delayed or advanced sine wave, it just needs a different resistance/inductance combination or different resistance/capacitance combo. Combined, this is called “reactance”.  Instead of +90 or -90 phase shift, you can make whatever you want. In our case, we wanted 15 degrees. 






Some early 1900’s R&M ceiling fans used nichrome wire in the start coils. Nichrome has 10x higher resistance than copper and gives a nice phase shift. But, as it ages, it gets brittle and breaks.  


You can also get a phase shift by having a different inductance (# turns of wire) or different resistance (diameter of wire and length of wire).


Emersons and other fans have an extra coil in the speed coil to make phase-shifted current. 

Even with a centrifugal start switch, the start windings need a phase shift. 

In a shaded pole motor, copper bands wrapped around part of the magnetic poles delay the magnetic field. 

Last edited on Wed Sep 16th, 2020 02:02 am by David Hoatson

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