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R&M 1176 Pics  Rate Topic 
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 Posted: Sat Dec 10th, 2011 11:41 pm
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Michael Rathberger
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Back, pretty much a typical 1153

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 Posted: Sat Dec 10th, 2011 11:42 pm
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Michael Rathberger
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Brushes. It's a nice complete fan which will need some work. Runs well, does seem to have a small variation in speeds. 110V AC, no need to convert anything.

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Last edited on Sat Dec 10th, 2011 11:47 pm by Michael Rathberger

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 Posted: Sat Dec 10th, 2011 11:44 pm
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Michael Rathberger
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Detail front of motor housing. Quite a bit different, probably the same as a DC fan. I had an 1124 or 1128 years ago I traded away, it was very similar as I recall. Never thought I would find another. Missing flag of course.

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Last edited on Sat Dec 10th, 2011 11:46 pm by Michael Rathberger

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 Posted: Sun Dec 11th, 2011 12:36 am
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Lewis Fitzgerald-Holland
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Very neat but why would they make a brush motor AC fan?

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 Posted: Sun Dec 11th, 2011 12:45 am
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Steve Stephens
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Is that a 25 or 40 cycle motor? Maybe even a 50 cycle but I don't think that would be a brush motor.

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 Posted: Sun Dec 11th, 2011 12:54 am
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Tom Dreesen
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Michael Rathberger wrote: Detail front of motor housing. Quite a bit different, probably the same as a DC fan. I had an 1124 or 1128 years ago I traded away, it was very similar as I recall. Never thought I would find another. Missing flag of course.
The 15000 110 DC non-oscillator has brushes in the rear bell.  I don't know if there was a DC oscillator and what that configuration would be,

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 Posted: Sun Dec 11th, 2011 01:43 am
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Russ Huber
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Early Jandus AC brush motor desk fans were intended to be wired with the brushes shorted( induction-repulsion)

If Mike's R&M fan motor is wired in SERIES with a laminated stator it should run on DC as well I would think. If Mike is running the fan on AC it must have a laminated stator.

http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_2/chpt_13/12.html

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 Posted: Sun Dec 11th, 2011 08:34 pm
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Michael Rathberger
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Steve, it's a 60 Cycle Fan according to the tag. Tom, the 1124/28 is a full DC fan, there's a couple of them out there and the brushes are to the front. Same with Terrys' DC in the gallery.

Lewis, I do not know because it really runs poorly on AC. When you run it on full DC as Russ suggests, it screams, in fact, I only dialed the variac up to 80 volts through my DC outlet and it runs much faster than 110 AC, fast enough I really didn't want to go any higher.Russ is as usual, correct when it comes to this stuff.

I think Randy mentioned a few weeks ago that a brush motor AC fan will run better on DC, he may know why. As far as configuration goes, it's probably the same as a DC fan.

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 Posted: Tue Dec 13th, 2011 03:02 am
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Tom Dreesen
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R&Ms of 1910 to c1915 when the flag cutouts disappeared are so confusing.

I need to send Larry my 15000 photos. What is the date for the 15000?

Someone would do a great service to put together a cohesive dated list. Steve S posted one catalog page. Are there enough catalogs known to put together a timeline?

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 Posted: Wed Dec 4th, 2019 02:53 am
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Russ Huber
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Michael Rathberger wrote:
My R&M 1176 brush motor AC screams at 70V DC. All said however, gives me a future idea on how to tame it and just run it DC.

It won't run properly running it on DC. The unknown brush motor fan I have is series wound. It would make sense it should run on either AC or DC. Wrong. If I try to run the Unknown fan on as little as 40 VDC there is little to no variable speed control, and it is borderline screaming. There are only 2 field poles. The fan will only operate properly on AC wall current, and there is only one logical reason for this. The way the armature is wound.  








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Last edited on Wed Dec 4th, 2019 03:44 am by Russ Huber

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 Posted: Wed Dec 4th, 2019 11:26 am
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Steven P Dempsey
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R&M certainly made a wide array of models. LIST 1506 DC





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 Posted: Wed Dec 4th, 2019 02:14 pm
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Michael Rathberger
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"It won't run properly running it on DC. The unknown brush motor fan I have is series wound. It would make sense it should run on either AC or DC. Wrong. If I try to run the Unknown fan on as little as 40 VDC there is little to no variable speed control, and it is borderline screaming. There are only 2 field poles. The fan will only operate properly on AC wall current, and there is only one logical reason for this. The way the armature is wound. "

 

If I remember right, Randy explained the AC brush motor essentially runs by shorting one side. It was a bit over my head, but he understood it. I know the 1176 ran smooth as silk on DC but super fast. I'll get to it when I'm 65 and I'll post an update here. By then, no one on here now will remember what AC and DC is. so it'll start a whole new conversation about Tesla and Edison...

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 Posted: Wed Dec 4th, 2019 11:14 pm
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Russ Huber
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Michael Rathberger wrote: "It won't run properly running it on DC. The unknown brush motor fan I have is series wound. It would make sense it should run on either AC or DC. Wrong. If I try to run the Unknown fan on as little as 40 VDC there is little to no variable speed control, and it is borderline screaming. There are only 2 field poles. The fan will only operate properly on AC wall current, and there is only one logical reason for this. The way the armature is wound. "

 

If I remember right, Randy explained the AC brush motor essentially runs by shorting one side.


Really, well, the unknown fan is a series wound brushed AC fan motor that does not tolerate DC current well at all. Nothing rocket science about the unknown fan other than just how its armature is wound. 


If you notice 2 wires exit from each of the 2 poles. One wire from each pole goes to an opposing brush of the other pole. The other wire from each pole winding goes to the common or hot wall current cord. No shorting on one side for this AC brush motor. The magic that makes this fan only tolerate AC well is in the windings of the armature.

The laminated stator is a heads up this fan was designed to tolerate AC eddy currents. On AC wall current the unknown fan has noticeable variable speed adjustment and can tolerate and operate well on full 120 VAC wall current. On DC current there is little to no variable speed adjustment and she is a screaming demon at voltages over 40 VDC.



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Last edited on Wed Dec 4th, 2019 11:33 pm by Russ Huber

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 Posted: Wed Dec 4th, 2019 11:25 pm
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Russ Huber
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The Jandus brushed round ball AC was designed to run on AC based on how the fan motor was wired, and the switch. By shorting out the brushes you could operate the round ball on AC as an induction repulsion motor. 2 speeds gained through the stator windings. FIG. 4

The DC round ball was simply series wound to the switch. 3 speed switch through resistance wire used on the switch. FIG. 5

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Last edited on Wed Dec 4th, 2019 11:38 pm by Russ Huber

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 Posted: Thu Dec 5th, 2019 02:37 am
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Russ Huber
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You did good on that one Mr. Mike. That fan rocks.  :D  If she is screaming with an open switch at 70 VDC when the fan specs. on the tag are 60 cycle 110 VAC I doubt your going to get your DC operation wish. Yours must have a laminated stator like the unknown. 

I would love to know from someone that KNOWS what is done with the armature on an AC brush motor with laminated stator so the fan is only compatible for AC alone. :wondering: 

Very few beefy cast iron R&Ms around here in the wild.

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 Posted: Thu Dec 5th, 2019 04:15 am
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Doug Wendel
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Hey Michael. Here's your old 1128.  Still in my basement.  Very similar except the 1128 has the greaser on the top of the front bearing.

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 Posted: Thu Dec 5th, 2019 04:18 am
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Doug Wendel
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1128

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 Posted: Fri Dec 6th, 2019 12:22 pm
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Michael Rathberger
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There it is Doug. That one came out of an antique shop on Lincoln Ave in Chicago. The old, good stores too. $35.00 was the ask, got if for $30.00. Hope you finish it one day.

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 Posted: Fri Dec 6th, 2019 05:10 pm
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Doug Wendel
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Hi Michael. Interesting it came from an antique shop on Lincoln Ave. The only other R&M Gearback I ever owned (AC model) also came from a shop on Lincoln Ave. I carried it home on the plane in my lap (pre 9/11 days), and it was heavy! I hope to get his one running someday.

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