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| Hunter C-18 Restore | Rating: 
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| Posted: Thu Dec 12th, 2013 09:47 pm |
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1st Post |
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David Hoatson Guest 
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I just got a Hunter C-18 with adjustable blade pitch: Attached Image (viewed 2868 times):
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| Posted: Thu Dec 12th, 2013 09:49 pm |
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2nd Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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It looks like it will need disassembly, sand blast, and paint due to lots of surface rust: Attached Image (viewed 2651 times):
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| Posted: Thu Dec 12th, 2013 09:50 pm |
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3rd Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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It looks complete, is pretty clean, and runs. Attached Image (viewed 2659 times):
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| Posted: Thu Dec 12th, 2013 09:51 pm |
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4th Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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What would be a good finish? Black is too plain. Here are some examples from the web: Attached Image (viewed 2688 times):
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| Posted: Thu Dec 12th, 2013 09:52 pm |
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5th Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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I like this. Paint? Plating? Attached Image (viewed 2645 times):
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13th, 2013 12:08 am |
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6th Post |
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Andrew Block Guest
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Both of those are plated. I think the first one honestly was blued over the copper. I'm not sure the copper was ever meant to be exposed originally. Or it may have been an oxidized copper fan.
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13th, 2013 12:40 am |
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7th Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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The main body looks like black paint, but the lower cover and blade arm mechanism looks like gun blue.
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13th, 2013 12:45 am |
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8th Post |
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Tom Dreesen AFCA Member 
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If you thought the Westy got expensive, check out copper flashing costs ... I don't like gloss black on these, but satin is nice. As found Attached Image (viewed 2599 times): Last edited on Fri Dec 13th, 2013 01:50 am by Tom Dreesen |
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13th, 2013 03:09 am |
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9th Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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Tom, how is that satin black done? It looks perfect. Sand blast, polish, then hot bluing?
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13th, 2013 03:16 am |
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10th Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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Also, any tricks to disassemble? Someone on the forum said the stator is soldered in place. I'm not sure how to take the blade arms off. Does the switch come of first, then oil cup, then adjuster ring, then arms? The wiring looks pretty good. The Westy wiring insulation was pretty rough.
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13th, 2013 03:25 am |
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11th Post |
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Andrew Block Guest
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I believe that is a lacquer or an enamel. I've honestly never worked on a C-18. I know the stator is screwed in and there was molten lead poured between the case and the stator to lock it into position. You might send a PM to Russell Petta, he has a number of these fans he has restored. The one over his dining room table is a stain black motor with a copper bottom plate and blade assembly. Very attractive fan.
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13th, 2013 03:27 am |
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12th Post |
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Rick Huckabee AFCA Member 
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David Hoatson wrote: I like this. Paint? Plating? I like the Copper and Black one too!. Copper, Brass, Nickel-Plated can never go wrong with any of those. Let your budget be your guide. Last edited on Fri Dec 13th, 2013 03:30 am by Rick Huckabee |
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13th, 2013 05:34 am |
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13th Post |
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Tom Dreesen AFCA Member
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David Hoatson wrote: Also, any tricks to disassemble? Someone on the forum said the stator is soldered in place. Pretty much. The arms come off with the control arm. That washer/race thingie the arms ride on is critical. They have been made in plastic I hear. As to finish. You can fake an OK copper oxide look with various metal rub finishes. Of course, a pale copy of the *original*, but if it is gone, it is gone. I saved the copper oxide on the nose of this GE, but the bottom plate was toast. That is a rub on it. Some contrast and it is done. before
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13th, 2013 05:36 am |
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14th Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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Video of how the blade adjuster works: http://youtu.be/dxFM7irjvjQ
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13th, 2013 05:43 am |
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15th Post |
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Tom Dreesen AFCA Member
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David Hoatson wrote: Tom, how is that satin black done? It looks perfect. Sand blast, polish, then hot bluing? No you can't take the windings out. You have to work around them. Not a problem usually. Tape them off and have at it. Primer, 3 coats Rustoleium black satin lacquer and a few clear satin lacquer. Best if you can paint cure at least a week. Rust or 20 coats of paint. Not much in between. http://www.afcaforum.com/view_topic.php?id=27182&forum_id=1&highlight=Hunter+adaptaire
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13th, 2013 05:44 am |
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16th Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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When you say metal rub, do you mean something like Amaco wax/metallic rub?
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13th, 2013 07:07 am |
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17th Post |
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Tom Dreesen AFCA Member
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yes http://www.amazon.com/AMACO-Metallic-Finish-Antique-0-5-Fluid/dp/B00081HYDM
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| Posted: Sat Dec 14th, 2013 02:52 am |
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18th Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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I'm leaning towards a sand blast, polish, black oxide, but I have to look into it more. Probably a hundred dollars+ unless I can get sympathy from a local shop. Since I can't dip the stator in hot acid to do the oxide, the upper case would need to be a lacquer, I think. The precision pitch control parts will either need the original finish or a new blue/black oxide to work well. I could get a black teflon coating like they use on M16 rifles. Its a matte black and is self lubricating. I think this is a special fan, it's all original, has good wiring, nothing broken or missing, and I want it to be a museum piece when done. Or, I could leave it as-is, unmolested, with its patina of surface rust, clean and oil, hang it and enjoy.
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| Posted: Sat Dec 14th, 2013 11:15 pm |
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19th Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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I disassembled the fan. Here's how. 1) Remove switch knob by unscrewing. 2) Pull switch cover straight off. Attached Image (viewed 2460 times):
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| Posted: Sat Dec 14th, 2013 11:18 pm |
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20th Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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3) Unscrew the 4 wire terminal screws and unwrap the wire from around the screws. 4) Remove the two screws that retain the switch. 5) Remove the switch. Attached Image (viewed 2365 times):
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| Posted: Sat Dec 14th, 2013 11:19 pm |
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21st Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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Odd that there was a new "4" marker on one wire. Someone has been here before. Switch: Attached Image (viewed 2449 times):
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| Posted: Sat Dec 14th, 2013 11:24 pm |
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22nd Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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6) remove the left-hand threaded lock nut. No tool on earth can fit this because it is deep inside the oil cup and a deep socket that fits the nut hits the two switch mounts. I used a large needle nose pliers. The nut was snug, but not too tight. 7) Unthread the oil cup. Also backwards threads. Attached Image (viewed 2311 times):
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| Posted: Sat Dec 14th, 2013 11:24 pm |
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23rd Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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Another view. Attached Image (viewed 2438 times):
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| Posted: Sat Dec 14th, 2013 11:28 pm |
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24th Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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8) Remove the felt washer (at inside bottom of oil cup), fiber washer, thrust bearing (race, cage, race), and fiber washer: Attached Image (viewed 2333 times): Last edited on Mon Dec 16th, 2013 12:01 am by David Hoatson |
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| Posted: Sat Dec 14th, 2013 11:35 pm |
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25th Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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Inside of oil cup: Attached Image (viewed 2401 times):
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| Posted: Sat Dec 14th, 2013 11:38 pm |
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26th Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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Oil cup had no drain screw (and no oil), but had a level screw or maybe a fill screw about an inch up from the bottom. Attached Image (viewed 2445 times):
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| Posted: Sat Dec 14th, 2013 11:43 pm |
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27th Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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Now we can take off the blade pitch mechanism. 9) Push the ring and right and left arms all the way to the right. 10) Now that you have a clear shot, remove the two screws that hold the left arm bracket to the rotor.11) Repeat with the other 3 arms. Attached Image (viewed 2352 times):
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| Posted: Sat Dec 14th, 2013 11:45 pm |
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28th Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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Arm assembly: Attached Image (viewed 2426 times):
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| Posted: Sat Dec 14th, 2013 11:47 pm |
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29th Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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At the end of the 1/4 circle arm is a rectangular felt or leather block, retained by a cotter pin. This is what runs in the adjuster ring. Attached Image (viewed 2414 times):
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| Posted: Sat Dec 14th, 2013 11:50 pm |
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30th Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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12) Remove the adjuster ring. It is made of a copper plated steel, blackened. Attached Image (viewed 2356 times): Last edited on Sun Dec 15th, 2013 11:59 pm by David Hoatson |
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| Posted: Sat Dec 14th, 2013 11:53 pm |
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31st Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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There is a slot in the side of the oil cup that the adjuster slides in. Attached Image (viewed 2339 times):
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| Posted: Sat Dec 14th, 2013 11:55 pm |
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32nd Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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Both parts. Not the adjuster has an upper limit stop pin and a lower limit stop pin. Attached Image (viewed 2345 times):
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| Posted: Sat Dec 14th, 2013 11:57 pm |
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33rd Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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The ID tag (removed in step 0) has a disk spring behind it that holds the adjustment. Attached Image (viewed 2361 times):
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| Posted: Sat Dec 14th, 2013 11:59 pm |
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34th Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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Another shot. Note oil holes in rotor. Attached Image (viewed 2380 times):
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| Posted: Sun Dec 15th, 2013 12:00 am |
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35th Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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13) Remove the lower cover screws and the cover. Attached Image (viewed 2341 times):
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| Posted: Sun Dec 15th, 2013 12:03 am |
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36th Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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14) Lift the rotor out. Attached Image (viewed 2347 times):
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| Posted: Sun Dec 15th, 2013 12:04 am |
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37th Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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Wiring look good and is not brittle or crumbly. No exposed bare wire. Attached Image (viewed 2327 times):
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| Posted: Sun Dec 15th, 2013 12:09 am |
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38th Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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Schematic. Switch goes Off-1-2-3, where 1 is high, 2 is medium, 3 is low. The opposite of my Westinghouse. Attached Image (viewed 2341 times):
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| Posted: Sun Dec 15th, 2013 12:15 am |
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39th Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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Note the wire comes out of the speed coil, wraps around the L1 power in screw, then down the axle tube to the "1" terminal on the switch. You can't see, but there are 2 other wires from the speed coil and one from the stator coil that go to the switch. Attached Image (viewed 2336 times):
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| Posted: Sun Dec 15th, 2013 12:16 am |
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40th Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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Bottom of rotor: Attached Image (viewed 2343 times):
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| Posted: Sun Dec 15th, 2013 12:20 am |
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41st Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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Top of rotor. Note the spiral grooves that pump oil from the oil cup up past the axle. Also note one of the two oil drain back holes that return the oil to the oil cup. Attached Image (viewed 1798 times):
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| Posted: Sun Dec 15th, 2013 12:23 am |
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42nd Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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There is an oil fill fitting on top: Attached Image (viewed 1671 times):
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| Posted: Sun Dec 15th, 2013 12:25 am |
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43rd Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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It feeds oil down to the reservoir in the top of the rotor via a slot cut in the axle: Attached Image (viewed 1750 times):
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| Posted: Sun Dec 15th, 2013 12:27 am |
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44th Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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Another view of the oil reservoir in the top of the rotor: Attached Image (viewed 1746 times):
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| Posted: Sun Dec 15th, 2013 12:34 am |
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45th Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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Close up of the perimeter of the rotor, showing the array of copper bars set at an angle (to reduce hum) in the "shaded pole" rotor. These bars are shorted together with copper plates at the top and bottom of the rotor. The stator coil induces an electrical current in these bars. The current sets up an electromagnetic field in the stator that is pushed by the stator magnetic field, spinning the rotor. I think. Attached Image (viewed 1762 times):
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| Posted: Sun Dec 15th, 2013 12:36 am |
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46th Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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I'm not sure, but I think the slots off to one side of the stator poles is what gets the rotor spinning in the correct direction. Edit: actually, it's the poles that don't have coils, but instead have the metal band. This creates a phase delayed field that gets the rotor spinning in the correct direction. Attached Image (viewed 1686 times): Last edited on Fri May 23rd, 2014 04:23 am by David Hoatson |
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| Posted: Sun Dec 15th, 2013 12:43 am |
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47th Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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Wiring looks in nice shape. Note lead solder between stator and frame. People say this prevents the stator from being removed. I'm leaving it in place. Attached Image (viewed 1748 times):
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| Posted: Sun Dec 15th, 2013 12:45 am |
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48th Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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The AC terminal board looks rather modern for a fan that was designed in 1915 (is this right?). Attached Image (viewed 1761 times):
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| Posted: Sun Dec 15th, 2013 12:46 am |
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49th Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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Top view of speed coil. Attached Image (viewed 1713 times):
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| Posted: Sun Dec 15th, 2013 12:48 am |
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50th Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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View of where wires enter the top of the axle for their trip down to the switch. Also not the oil fill fitting with its spring loaded lid. Attached Image (viewed 1761 times):
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| Posted: Sun Dec 15th, 2013 01:03 am |
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51st Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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Anybody know what year this was made? Attached Image (viewed 1737 times):
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| Posted: Sun Dec 15th, 2013 02:25 am |
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52nd Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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The blades have what looks like leather washers between the wood and the metal arm: Attached Image (viewed 1738 times):
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| Posted: Sun Dec 15th, 2013 02:26 am |
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53rd Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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Also, there is what looks like penciled in numbers: Attached Image (viewed 1749 times):
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| Posted: Sun Dec 15th, 2013 02:27 am |
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54th Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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On the other side (top) of the blades, there are two centerline marked stamped into the wood: Attached Image (viewed 1735 times):
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| Posted: Sun Dec 15th, 2013 02:49 am |
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55th Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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It's the short horizontal line to the left of, and a little below, the screw hole in the previous picture. Makes you wonder why bother putting in a centerline if you ignore it when drilling the holes. Here is the mark at the other end: Attached Image (viewed 1742 times):
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| Posted: Sun Dec 15th, 2013 03:01 am |
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56th Post |
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Tom Dreesen AFCA Member
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The rubber washers are a later addition by a past owner. A good idea to help eliminate "hummmmm". In the 70s and later, they actually had the rubber grommets extend through the blade.
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| Posted: Sun Dec 15th, 2013 04:47 am |
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57th Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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I think a previous owner removed the oil cup so he could pack the thrust bearing with grease. He should have read the manual.
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| Posted: Sun Dec 15th, 2013 05:26 pm |
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58th Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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Before refinishing the frame, I wanted to remove the Hunter name tag. It's retained by two push in pins that look like rivets. I can't easily remove the stator coil to get access to punch them out from the inside, but luckily, there is a gap between the stator and frame.One of the pins was long enough that I could loosen it with a screwdriver from the inside: Attached Image (viewed 1691 times): Last edited on Thu Dec 26th, 2013 06:53 am by David Hoatson |
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| Posted: Sun Dec 15th, 2013 05:30 pm |
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59th Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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A made a tool by cutting the head off of a nail, bending it 90 degrees in a vise, grinding if close to the bend, and grinding it thinner and flat so I could wedge a screwdriver in to push the pin out: Attached Image (viewed 1712 times):
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| Posted: Sun Dec 15th, 2013 05:31 pm |
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60th Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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Tool in use: Attached Image (viewed 1730 times):
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| Posted: Sun Dec 15th, 2013 05:34 pm |
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61st Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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Badge and rivets: Attached Image (viewed 1710 times):
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| Posted: Sun Dec 15th, 2013 05:36 pm |
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62nd Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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Rivet pin: Attached Image (viewed 1717 times):
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| Posted: Sun Dec 15th, 2013 08:47 pm |
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63rd Post |
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Andrew Block Guest
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Ugh those stators are a bitch to realign. I wish you well my friend :)
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| Posted: Sun Dec 15th, 2013 09:09 pm |
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64th Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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I admit I am thinking about pulling the stator. I could get the entire fan re-blued like original. Does it come out easily? Does the lead come out with the stator? Can the stator go back in with the original lead pieces, keeping the original alignment? Or would it be best to melt it and suck or wick it out? Does alignment involve centering the coil with temporary shims to get the same air gap with the rotor all around?Any advice is welcome.
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| Posted: Sun Dec 15th, 2013 09:33 pm |
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65th Post |
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Andrew Block Guest
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I'll be honest, in all the Hunter ceiling fans I've worked on, I've never done it. But Matt O'Neill is a talented machinist and one day I got a call asking me if I had a C-17 stator because he couldn't get the one he took out centered correctly. I would advise not removing it honestly. I don't know if that fan was blued on the upper casing, I think they were enameled. If memory serves me, it behooves you to put a rubber or leather washer underneath the oil cup nut. That design was poor and is very prone to leak.
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| Posted: Sun Dec 15th, 2013 10:45 pm |
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66th Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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I said earlier that there is no tool that can get to the oil cup lock nut, but I spoke too soon. Yes, a socket that fits the 7/8" nut can't fit in the 7/8" gap between the switch mounts, but I took an old socket and an angle grinder and made what should work: Attached Image (viewed 1719 times):
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| Posted: Sun Dec 15th, 2013 10:46 pm |
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67th Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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It's hard to show depth on a photo, but here is the socket in the cup: Attached Image (viewed 1696 times):
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| Posted: Sun Dec 15th, 2013 10:48 pm |
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68th Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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Maybe a crow's foot would work (but Santa never gave me any).
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| Posted: Sun Dec 15th, 2013 11:12 pm |
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69th Post |
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Andrew Block Guest
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Now that I looked closer at your oil cup, it appears to be different than the C-17. In those the shaft mates directly to the oil cup without a lip on the inner threads. Horrible design that leaks if it's not seated correctly or if the threads have been stripped at all.
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| Posted: Sun Dec 15th, 2013 11:25 pm |
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70th Post |
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Tom Dreesen AFCA Member
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Andrew Block wrote: Now that I looked closer at your oil cup, it appears to be different than the C-17. In those the shaft mates directly to the oil cup without a lip on the inner threads. Horrible design that leaks if it's not seated correctly or if the threads have been stripped at all. It's still a "through the cup" design that most of the teens and preteens had that requires that bottom nut/threads/washers to form a seal. I teflon the pooky out of them myself. Also, for removal, I have had good luck just spinning the cup. "Locking nut" is a bit of a misnomer as you can turn them as a unit.
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| Posted: Sun Dec 15th, 2013 11:56 pm |
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71st Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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I have a General Motors thread sealant that I think is like Teflon. I'll use that. In the C-18, the oil cup threads onto the shaft until it is tight. Then, the lock nut (jam nut) is installed on the same axle threads and tightened up against the oil cup.When I took apart the Westinghouse CF that I have, it looked like it may have had some kind of lacquer painted on the axle threads to seal them.
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| Posted: Mon Dec 16th, 2013 02:20 am |
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72nd Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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I took the jump and pulled the stator. Here's how. Disconnect the wires from the terminal board. Turns out the wire I thought wrapped around one of the terminals was two seperate runs: Attached Image (viewed 1717 times):
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| Posted: Mon Dec 16th, 2013 02:23 am |
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73rd Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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The stator wire that goes to the switch common (visible in the previous picture if you look hard) is tied down with a string, so untie it: Attached Image (viewed 1722 times):
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| Posted: Mon Dec 16th, 2013 02:26 am |
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74th Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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In the previous shot, you can see that one terminal screw is gold (hot) and the other is silver(neutral), just like modern outlets. Fish the switch wires out of the axle. Attached Image (viewed 1691 times):
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| Posted: Mon Dec 16th, 2013 02:28 am |
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75th Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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You can now remove the two screws holding down the speed coil and remove the coil. No need to cut or unsolder any wires. Attached Image (viewed 1700 times):
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| Posted: Mon Dec 16th, 2013 02:37 am |
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76th Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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Look at the coil very carefully. You must never damage the coil. Remove every other stator screw - the ones that screw the stator to the frame. The other screws have nuts on the back and hold the stator together.Insert a large flat blade screwdriver through an opening in the top, positioning the blade on top of one of the stator nuts. Pull up, prying against the frame. The rotor will move out a little, maybe 1/64". Moving in a circle, pry every place that has a rotor nut.This will slowly inch the coil out of the frame. Attached Image (viewed 1635 times):
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| Posted: Mon Dec 16th, 2013 02:38 am |
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77th Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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After doing the circle maybe 15 times, shift to a new pry angle: Attached Image (viewed 1672 times):
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| Posted: Mon Dec 16th, 2013 02:40 am |
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78th Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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I was working on a piece of cardboard to protect the coil. Here is coil out: Attached Image (viewed 1689 times):
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| Posted: Mon Dec 16th, 2013 02:41 am |
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79th Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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The empty frame: Attached Image (viewed 1675 times):
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| Posted: Mon Dec 16th, 2013 02:42 am |
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80th Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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All the lead solder shims stayed in place. Attached Image (viewed 1582 times):
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| Posted: Mon Dec 16th, 2013 02:42 am |
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81st Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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All the lead solder shims stayed in place. Attached Image (viewed 1783 times):
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| Posted: Mon Dec 16th, 2013 02:45 am |
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82nd Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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It's funny. In the last photo, you can see the two rivet pin holes that hold on the Hunter name tag. I wouldn't have needed the nail tool to push out the pins if I knew I was going to pull the stator.
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| Posted: Mon Dec 16th, 2013 03:13 am |
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83rd Post |
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Tom Dreesen AFCA Member
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Kinda like the inverse of the old Chinese thumb capture trick (easy in, hard out), these are a lot easier to remove than to get back in. You were warned, now prove us wrong;^)
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| Posted: Mon Dec 16th, 2013 04:39 am |
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84th Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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It's just metal. Man has power over metal. When the time comes. I WILL get the stator back in. Hopefully.
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| Posted: Mon Dec 16th, 2013 05:02 am |
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85th Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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I think I understand the finish, but tell me if I'm wrong. The finish on all the steel and cast iron parts is copper oxide. It seems that copper normally turns green when it oxidizes, just like iron turns red (rust, FeO). Modern black oxide like you would see on a black bolt is a finish where hot chemical baths form a black oxide (Fe2O4) that protects the metal and keeps the red rust from forming. Copper also has several oxides. Instead of the green oxide, you can make copper form a protective black surface oxide (CuO) with a chemical bath. It looks like a thin black paint applied over copper. When the part is new, it looks like a nice black paint. After a while it will get surface rust, like when a gun rusts if you don't oil it. Last edited on Sat Mar 1st, 2014 09:23 pm by David Hoatson |
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| Posted: Mon Dec 16th, 2013 05:09 am |
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86th Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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Below the black finish, there is copper in some areas: the lower section of the main frame, the oil cup, and the adjustment ring. The upper part of the frame and the entire lower cover don't have copper under the black. How did they do this in the old days? Electroplated copper onto the iron, then a chemical dip to turn it black? Interesting stuff.
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| Posted: Mon Dec 16th, 2013 06:04 am |
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87th Post |
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Andrew Block Guest
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I think they used a sulfur bath. On Russell's fan, the top is a black semi-gloss enamel, the bottom plate and the adjustments and the switch housing were all copper. The fan also had the earlier ribbed cast Hunter canopy.
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| Posted: Mon Dec 16th, 2013 07:08 am |
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88th Post |
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Tom Dreesen AFCA Member
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http://books.google.com/books?id=fhjOAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA127&dq=%22striped+tubing,+ont+of+the+favorite+oxidized+finishes%22&hl=en&ei=PvAsTcbmA8Gp8AbKvPSpCQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCUQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false
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| Posted: Mon Dec 16th, 2013 11:10 am |
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89th Post |
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Andrew Block Guest
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Here is one of Russell's fans. I was wrong about the bottom plate being copper. But I have seem them in copper. I believe he used teflon tubing as the edges for the part where the brackets ride around on the track. Attached Image (viewed 1720 times):
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| Posted: Mon Dec 16th, 2013 05:28 pm |
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90th Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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I have seen that picture. Very nice!I found out that there is a MIL-SPEC for the black copper oxide finish: MIL-F-495. There are companies that still do it. I think optical companies use it to blacken the inside of cameras. It doesn't say how to do it, only how to test it (low gloss, flexibility, weather resistance). Last edited on Sat Mar 1st, 2014 09:25 pm by David Hoatson |
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| Posted: Mon Dec 16th, 2013 06:47 pm |
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91st Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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Tom, the "liver of sulphur" write up is interesting.
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| Posted: Tue Dec 17th, 2013 07:42 am |
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92nd Post |
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Louis Weedman AFCA Member 
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I'm excited to see the progress on your C-18. I think these are really neat fans. I had a C-18 motor at one point, but it was really rusty after sitting outside at a junkyard for years and was missing the entire blade mechanism. It still worked, though! Last edited on Tue Dec 17th, 2013 07:44 am by Louis Weedman |
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| Posted: Tue Dec 17th, 2013 02:20 pm |
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93rd Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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In the future, if someone want to restore a Hunter they can look at this forum and see what everything looks like, see what issues arose, how the fan is assembled and wired, etc. I saw in an old post that someone had a C-18, but the felt blocks on the arms that ride in the adjuster ring were missing and he wondered what belonged there. Well, it is a felt block, .32" x .34" x .42", with a .155" hole through the middle of the .32" x .34" face. Plus, next time one show up for sale, maybe it won't sit there unsold for a month. It is risky restoring an Internet fan. You can't tell if it will ever run. Half of the cost can be shipping. It might crack in half in shipping. If a part is missing, you may never be able to find one. But, when you put it back together, turn it on, and it runs just like it did in 1920, it feels good. No guts, no glory.
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| Posted: Tue Dec 17th, 2013 03:09 pm |
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94th Post |
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Tom Dreesen AFCA Member
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David Hoatson wrote: In the future, if someone want to restore a Hunter they can look at this forum and see what everything looks like, see what issues arose, how the fan is assembled and wired, etc. I saw in an old post that someone had a C-18, but the felt blocks on the arms that ride in the adjuster ring were missing and he wondered what belonged there. Well, it is a felt block, .32" x .34" x .42", with a .155" hole through the middle of the .32" x .34" face. Plus, next time one show up for sale, maybe it won't sit there unsold for a month. It is risky restoring an Internet fan. You can't tell if it will ever run. Half of the cost can be shipping. It might crack in half in shipping. If a part is missing, you may never be able to find one. But, when you put it back together, turn it on, and it runs just like it did in 1920, it feels good. No guts, no glory. There's plenty of guts around here a little glory (the after) and if you were a member, you could see the big pictures in the galleries ... and if we can get Chuck a new camera and someone to use it for him, then there would be a whole lot more glory. Last edited on Tue Dec 17th, 2013 03:15 pm by Tom Dreesen |
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| Posted: Tue Dec 17th, 2013 05:57 pm |
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95th Post |
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Doug Handley AFCA Member 
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Restored Emmy 35661 with 6 inch light. My only foray so far into the world of ceiling fans. Blades are about 2 inches longer than the originals. Attached Image (viewed 1695 times): Last edited on Tue Dec 17th, 2013 10:42 pm by Doug Handley |
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| Posted: Tue Dec 17th, 2013 07:52 pm |
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96th Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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Nice fans. The blades and pin striping look great. I'm too cheap to join this month cus it would expire in two weeks, but I will join next week for 2014.
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| Posted: Wed Dec 18th, 2013 01:06 am |
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97th Post |
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Andrew Block Guest
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Actually the dues you pay in December are NEXT years.
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| Posted: Wed Dec 18th, 2013 02:13 am |
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98th Post |
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Tom Dreesen AFCA Member
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David Hoatson wrote: Nice fans. The blades and pin striping look great. I'm too cheap to join this month cus it would expire in two weeks, but I will join next week for 2014. Just "pulling your chain" David. I held out a long time. The dues are a very small part of what I pay to indulge in this hobby. On the other hand, restoring fans, even ceiling fans, can be self supporting and even money making. I think you have an appreciation for that. As to chain pulling and possible *jolts*, I have a few Eagle chain arrestors for pull chains. Attached Image (viewed 1631 times):
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| Posted: Wed Dec 18th, 2013 02:29 am |
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99th Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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I'm afraid to ask what a Chain Arrestor is. Looks like a device installed in a switch pull chain so a fan with bad wires won't electrocute you when you turn it on. Am I close?
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| Posted: Wed Dec 18th, 2013 02:35 am |
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100th Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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This is in regards to another thread that I can't respond to cus I'm too cheap to pay dues, but that pile of fans selling in Florida has a lot of unbroken ceiling fan rotary switches, plus an oak leaf GE. Makes me drool looking at it.
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| Posted: Wed Dec 18th, 2013 02:41 am |
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101st Post |
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Tom Dreesen AFCA Member
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David Hoatson wrote: This is in regards to another thread that I can't respond to cus I'm too cheap to pay dues, but that pile of fans selling in Florida has a lot of unbroken ceiling fan rotary switches, plus an oak leaf GE. Makes me drool looking at it. There ya go. But you can make oak blades from scratch. Nice to know you have your priorities correct ;^) Pre ground, "ground fault interrupter"!! Whats a few volts between friends?
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| Posted: Wed Dec 18th, 2013 02:44 am |
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102nd Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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I try to stay current.
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| Posted: Fri Dec 20th, 2013 01:36 am |
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103rd Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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I see that you can buy Liver of Sulfur on the Internet and people use it to turn copper black. It's a very smelly, but pretty safe chemical that is used at room temperature. (No boiling corrosive salts needed). I'm curious if I can dip a piece of copper and give it the old copper oxide finish. Much more interesting than spray paint. I looked into home copper plating, but to plate a large iron casting would take a big power supply and looks tricky. Maybe I can fund my hobby by turning lead into gold? Last edited on Fri Dec 20th, 2013 01:37 am by David Hoatson |
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| Posted: Fri Dec 20th, 2013 01:51 am |
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104th Post |
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Tom Dreesen AFCA Member
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Lead to gold is possible ... but not necessarily a money making proposition: Transmutation of lead into gold isn't just theoretically possible - it has been achieved! There are reports that Glenn Seaborg, 1951 Nobel Laureate in Chemistry, succeeded in transmuting a minute quantity of lead (possibly en route from bismuth, in 1980) into gold. There is an earlier report (1972) in which Soviet physicists at a nuclear research facility near Lake Baikal in Siberia accidentally discovered a reaction for turning lead into gold when they found the lead shielding of an experimental reactor had changed to gold. You really can't beat a quality copper oxide finish. The question is whether you can afford it ...
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| Posted: Sat Dec 21st, 2013 09:39 pm |
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105th Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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The parts are cleaned up. Attached Image (viewed 1588 times):
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| Posted: Sat Dec 21st, 2013 09:40 pm |
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106th Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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I'm going to try to get a copper oxide finish like original. Attached Image (viewed 1606 times):
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| Posted: Sun Dec 22nd, 2013 12:15 am |
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107th Post |
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Andrew Block Guest
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I haven't done it on a fan but I have on a chandelier. I use a satin black paint and the Rub-n-Buff and then a cleancoat. It looks nice on there, subtle but nice.
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| Posted: Sun Dec 22nd, 2013 02:05 am |
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108th Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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Rotor is painted. Attached Image (viewed 1620 times):
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| Posted: Tue Dec 24th, 2013 12:54 am |
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109th Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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If I get the parts copper plated, will the lead solder survive?If so, once the finish is done, I'm thinking of grinding a small radius on the leading edge of the stator where it will slide down the solder so it doesn't shave off solder and maybe jam. I'm planning on pulling the stator into the case by first installing threaded rods in the stator mount screw holes, and using washers and nuts to push the stator evenly into the frame.Anybody tried this?
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| Posted: Tue Dec 24th, 2013 01:10 am |
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110th Post |
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Tom Dreesen AFCA Member
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David Hoatson wrote: If I get the parts copper plated, will the lead solder survive?If so, once the finish is done, I'm thinking of grinding a small radius on the leading edge of the stator where it will slide down the solder so it doesn't shave off solder and maybe jam. I'm planning on pulling the stator into the case by first installing threaded rods in the stator mount screw holes, and using washers and nuts to push the stator evenly into the frame.Anybody tried this? Sorta. I had a real rust bucket of an Emerson (the 6 blade on this thread) that I pulled the windings on. Never again ... I tried rods with cap nuts after freezing the windings and heating the case. All I managed to do was drive the rods through the tops of the cap nuts. I ended up grinding the case down (yellow arrows) and using hydraulic jacks to get them back in. Last edited on Tue Dec 24th, 2013 01:57 am by Tom Dreesen |
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| Posted: Tue Dec 24th, 2013 03:48 am |
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111th Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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Looks nice. Is fan restoration your business, or just an uncontrolled, money draining obsession, like in my case.
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| Posted: Tue Dec 24th, 2013 03:52 am |
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112th Post |
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Tom Dreesen AFCA Member
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David Hoatson wrote: Looks nice. Is fan restoration your business, or just an uncontrolled, money draining obsession, like in my case. I started like you but have progressed to weekend warrior. I like to think I am in the black. Don't ask per hour pay ... I can accumulate faster than restore ... Attached Image (viewed 1596 times): Last edited on Tue Dec 24th, 2013 04:01 am by Tom Dreesen |
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| Posted: Sat Dec 28th, 2013 05:40 am |
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113th Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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I got a quote for copper plating the parts, $185. I ordered a couple types of Liver of Sulphur (rock and jell) and plan to experiment with the stuff. I'm also cleaning up grind marks and casting flash. I'm sure I'll learn something and hopefully it will turn out nice.I learned one thing already - if you ask the girl at the craft store for Liver of Sulpher, she will look at you like you are from another planet.
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| Posted: Sat Dec 28th, 2013 05:53 am |
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114th Post |
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Tom Dreesen AFCA Member
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David Hoatson wrote: I got a quote for copper plating the parts, $185. I ordered a couple types of Liver of Sulphur (rock and jell) and plan to experiment with the stuff. I'm also cleaning up grind marks and casting flash. I'm sure I'll learn something and hopefully it will turn out nice.I learned one thing already - if you ask the girl at the craft store for Liver of Sulpher, she will look at you like you are from another planet. So how did you get the shaft out of the housing?
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| Posted: Sat Dec 28th, 2013 03:36 pm |
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115th Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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The plater says the shaft and lead can stay and that he will mask them.
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| Posted: Sat Dec 28th, 2013 03:50 pm |
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116th Post |
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Tom Dreesen AFCA Member
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David Hoatson wrote: The plater says the shaft and lead can stay and that he will mask them. I have wanted to try this, but have not had a pressing reason to invest in it yet. You seem adventurous. http://www.caswellplating.com/electroplating-anodizing/copper-plating-kits/acid-copper-electroforming-kits.html
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| Posted: Sun Dec 29th, 2013 08:54 pm |
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117th Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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I looked into copper plating kits. Seems like it works best if you do a nickel plate first. Plus, it sounds like large objects need a large current, low voltage power supply. Sounded like you need good equipment to do a good job. Black oxide (hot gun bluing) looked like a good option. The liver of sulphur looks easy and safe. When done, you pour the bath on your garden. It is supposed to be a good fertilizer. I could stencil paint a pattern around the rim with clear lacquer before blackening. This would create a copper pattern. Maybe ivy. Sounds like if you don't like it, scrub it off and re-dip in the sulphur.
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| Posted: Sun Dec 29th, 2013 09:12 pm |
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118th Post |
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Tom Dreesen AFCA Member
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I thought copper was the first layer you put down before chrome or nickle?
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| Posted: Sun Dec 29th, 2013 09:55 pm |
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119th Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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I don't know. Regarding Copper Plating, Wikipedia says: "Copper is an active metal and so difficult to plate onto a passivated surface, making direct plating of iron based metals difficult. Such surfaces often require a nickel strikebase coat for the copper to adhere to." Last edited on Sun Dec 29th, 2013 09:56 pm by David Hoatson |
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| Posted: Sun Dec 29th, 2013 10:12 pm |
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120th Post |
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Tom Dreesen AFCA Member
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David Hoatson wrote: I don't know. Regarding Copper Plating, Wikipedia says: I would have to see what Wiki cited for that statement. I am sure all the copper flashed cast iron ceiling fans I have seen (quite a few) were directly onto the cast iron.
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| Posted: Sun Dec 29th, 2013 10:16 pm |
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121st Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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I think you are right.
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| Posted: Tue Dec 31st, 2013 10:41 pm |
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122nd Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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I got two types of Liver of Sulphur today: rock and gel. The rock form seems a little faster/stronger. I cleaned pieces of copper pipe with steel wool or sandpaper. It acts fast and leaves a gray color. I buffed a piece after it dried with a electric buffing wheel, making a cool shiny gun metal look with a little copper color. Picture of one un-buffed and one buffed piece: Attached Image (viewed 1855 times): Last edited on Tue Dec 31st, 2013 10:44 pm by David Hoatson |
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| Posted: Tue Dec 31st, 2013 10:49 pm |
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123rd Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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I tried blackening a brass pipe fitting and even though I cleaned and sanded it, the Liver of Sulphur had no effect at all.
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| Posted: Tue Dec 31st, 2013 11:03 pm |
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124th Post |
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Tom Dreesen AFCA Member
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David Hoatson wrote: I tried blackening a brass pipe fitting and even though I cleaned and sanded it, the Liver of Sulphur had no effect at all. That's why it is called a copper oxide finish and not brass oxide finish. Remember, others have "been there, done that" http://books.google.com/books?id=fhjOAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA127&dq=%22striped+tubing,+ont+of+the+favorite+oxidized+finishes%22&hl=en&ei=PvAsTcbmA8Gp8AbKvPSpCQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCUQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false
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| Posted: Wed Jan 1st, 2014 12:23 am |
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125th Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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I read that today. It mentioned using it on brass, but I didn't read it close enough to see it was copper plated brass: "A favorite finish on many classes of work using brass tubing is the so-called "striped finish." Tubing finished in this manner is shown in Fig. I. It is easily accomplished by copper plating the brass and then oxidizing it in a liver of sulphur solution". Last edited on Wed Jan 1st, 2014 12:24 am by David Hoatson |
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| Posted: Wed Jan 1st, 2014 02:14 am |
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126th Post |
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Tom Dreesen AFCA Member
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David Hoatson wrote: I read that today. It mentioned using it on brass, but I didn't read it close enough to see it was copper plated brass: "A favorite finish on many classes of work using brass tubing is the so-called "striped finish." Tubing finished in this manner is shown in Fig. I. It is easily accomplished by copper plating the brass and then oxidizing it in a liver of sulphur solution". Nothing like trial and error to get results. There are ways to treat brass/bronze, just not liver of sulfur. http://www.epi.com/c/antiquing-oxidizing/copper-brass-bronze
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| Posted: Fri Jan 3rd, 2014 04:22 am |
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127th Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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I've got the castings cleaned up, using a rotary file, and grades of sandpaper from 60 to 220. Off to the plater tomorrow to get copper. I sanded the badge with 600 grit to highlight the raised lettering. Under the black was a thin layer of copper, then the brass base material. It was originally all black copper oxide coated. Attached Image (viewed 1774 times):
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| Posted: Fri Jan 3rd, 2014 04:28 am |
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128th Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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I ordered some brass rope tubing, brass lamp sockets (with uno thread), brass 2-1/4" fitters to hold shades, brass nuts, and a die to thread the tubing from mylampparts. I'm going to bend the tubing 45-degrees like this (but without the 90-degree fittings). Attached Image (viewed 1798 times):
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| Posted: Sat Jan 4th, 2014 02:50 am |
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129th Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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I got a tour of the plating shop. Just vats of nasty chemicals and power supplies. Interesting. For copper plate, they do a degrease, then acid dip, then nickel flash, then copper plate. The nickel flash is a very fast, thin plate with a flashing nickel, not a true nickel plate. I think he said you have to do the flash to get the copper to adhere and because the copper tank is very acidic (pH = 3) and would etch into the cast iron too much, eating it away. I asked about triple chrome plate, which is copper, nickel, then chrome. He said that for chrome, they still do the nickel flash, then copper plate, nickel plate, and chrome plate. This switch turns on the chrome tank. It's hard to tell, but it is about a foot high, blued by fumes. Dr Frankenstein would be envious. Attached Image (viewed 1777 times): Last edited on Sat Jan 4th, 2014 05:28 am by David Hoatson |
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| Posted: Sat Jan 4th, 2014 03:06 am |
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130th Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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He said the tricky part will be the oil cup, because it is hollow. I think the nickel flash may appear only on the outside. He was worried that the copper bath would remove too much metal from the inside of the cup, polluting his copper bath. Their anodes are usually copper chunks in bags hanging on the inside walls of the tank, but sometimes they make "conformal anodes" that are shaped roughly like a mold of the part, maybe protruding into the cup, so the part gets plated inside and out. I think that otherwise, the inside would sort of be in the "shadow" of the flow of electricity. I guess there is a lot to it. He said that for copper, the voltage is set around one volt, and the current could be 30 amps, depending on the object's surface area. If the voltage/current is too high, the copper is dull and "burnt". Hydrogen bubbles form on the surface and would create copper-free spots, or pits, except they blow air up through the tank from below to break up all the bubbles. Wild stuff. He said the chemicals are not too bad. You can stick your arm in the acid tank, but you have to wash it off good. Reminds me of the Repo Man movie where the scientist says that radiation is not bad at all. Maybe I'm just more sensitive to cyanide than most guys.
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| Posted: Sun Jan 5th, 2014 03:48 am |
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131st Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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I ordered some brass lighting parts and I'm trying to see if I can copper plate them at home. I think brass is easier to plate than iron. My test piece is a brass pipe that I sanded and buffed with steel wool to get any lacquer, oil, or oxide off. I put hot tap water in a 4"x4" plastic tub, dissolved about a 1/4" deep layer of Zep Root Killer (copper sulphate sold at Home Depot), laid some heavy gage copper wire in an S shape on the bottom of the tub, connected to a D battery + side, - side connected to the piece of brass. The wire to the brass piece has to be above the water level. After 45 minutes, I had a nice copper layer. The battery rather quickly (in 15 minutes) dropped to 1.3 volts. I think this is the voltage that copper plate naturally wants. Attached Image (viewed 1726 times):
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| Posted: Sun Jan 5th, 2014 03:53 am |
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132nd Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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I sanded smooth the copper on one side of the pipe (so I could see if smooth works better than rough), then put it in a liver of sulpher bath. It looks like it blackened darker that the copper pipe test pieces did. I'll let it dry then buff it out tomorrow. Attached Image (viewed 1606 times):
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| Posted: Sun Jan 5th, 2014 06:03 am |
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133rd Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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The plating setup: Attached Image (viewed 1765 times):
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| Posted: Sun Jan 5th, 2014 06:03 am |
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134th Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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After 5 minutes: Attached Image (viewed 1743 times):
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| Posted: Sat Jan 11th, 2014 10:56 pm |
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135th Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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[highlight= rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);]The plater is done copper plating the fan parts. I'm working on the lighting parts, polishing, cleaning, plating, and oxidizing: Attached Image (viewed 1749 times):
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| Posted: Sun Jan 12th, 2014 01:02 am |
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136th Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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Cool looking finish: Attached Image (viewed 1751 times):
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| Posted: Sun Jan 12th, 2014 01:33 am |
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137th Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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The lamp sockets came with a clear coating that I removed by buffing. I couldn't get in the cracks well, so it didn't plate well. I'm going to media blast tomorrow. That should work. Attached Image (viewed 1733 times): Last edited on Sun Jan 12th, 2014 01:36 am by David Hoatson |
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| Posted: Sun Jan 12th, 2014 02:39 am |
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138th Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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Lamp tubes lightly buffed. Test piece heavily buffed: Attached Image (viewed 1703 times):
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| Posted: Sun Jan 12th, 2014 08:19 pm |
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139th Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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For a test, I buffed through the oxide to the copper. Not sure which look is best. The oxide was strong and hard to buff through. I switched from tap water to distilled for the liver of sulphur bath, so this might have helped. Bath temperature was 120F and I added a tablespoon of ammonia to the 32 oz bath. The copper polished up good without burning through to the brass. I had polished the brass before plating. This gives a smoother copper. I plated the copper for 20 minutes. Attached Image (viewed 1715 times):
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| Posted: Mon Jan 13th, 2014 11:24 pm |
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140th Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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The copper plate of the brass parts turned out well: Attached Image (viewed 1714 times):
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| Posted: Tue Jan 14th, 2014 08:37 pm |
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141st Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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All buffed out: Attached Image (viewed 1693 times):
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| Posted: Wed Jan 15th, 2014 11:36 pm |
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142nd Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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It's almost a shame to make it black. I may leave some copper around the vents. Attached Image (viewed 1640 times):
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| Posted: Thu Jan 16th, 2014 01:51 am |
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143rd Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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The new parts took a lot longer to blacken, like several minutes. Maybe because the copper was smoother. I think I'm going to buff through the black to expose copper in some places, then wax the whole thing. Not dry or buffed out yet: Attached Image (viewed 1618 times):
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| Posted: Thu Jan 16th, 2014 02:26 am |
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144th Post |
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Tom Dreesen AFCA Member
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Historically, one used lacquer to *mask* the areas you want to be bright.
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| Posted: Thu Jan 16th, 2014 03:02 am |
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145th Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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Tom, I appreciate your advice and am trying different techniques. I may use lacquer on the main case and cover. I like the look of what is described in a book that you posted the link to: "The striped portions are then produced by cutting through the surface down to the copper by means of a buff wheel. The copper shows through forming a contrast to the black, untouched surface." I don't like the random tiger stripes too much. I am enjoying learning new things. Oxide is sort of easy and makes an interesting gray metallic finish. Plus, I'm not a good painter.  Last edited on Thu Jan 16th, 2014 03:03 am by David Hoatson |
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| Posted: Thu Jan 16th, 2014 03:05 am |
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146th Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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Has anyone used copper oxide on a desk fan?
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| Posted: Thu Jan 16th, 2014 03:33 am |
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147th Post |
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Tom Dreesen AFCA Member
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David Hoatson wrote: Has anyone used copper oxide on a desk fan? Yes, on the blades. Jandus
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| Posted: Thu Jan 16th, 2014 04:04 am |
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148th Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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Lamp holders are done: Attached Image (viewed 1594 times):
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| Posted: Sun Jan 19th, 2014 01:39 am |
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149th Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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Here's the oil cup with copper oxide, with some polishing, no copper exposed. I used the gel liver of sulphur cus I think my rock form went bad. The coating seems very good, difficult to accidentally cut through to copper when polishing: Attached Image (viewed 1605 times):
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| Posted: Wed Jan 22nd, 2014 03:13 am |
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150th Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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Should I make it black? All polished copper? Copper only in the vents? Stencil a pattern with clear lacquer so copper and black? Attached Image (viewed 1572 times):
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| Posted: Wed Jan 22nd, 2014 03:45 am |
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151st Post |
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Tom Dreesen AFCA Member
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Think about your overall fan presentation (blade irons, cup, lights, etc). I am partial to spirals going in the blade direction myself.
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| Posted: Wed Jan 22nd, 2014 04:27 am |
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152nd Post |
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Andrew Block Guest
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I'm partial to this. Maybe a tish more subtle. Attached Image (viewed 1562 times):
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| Posted: Wed Jan 22nd, 2014 04:34 am |
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153rd Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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Thanks, Tom. I'll figure it out. If I don't like it, I can buff it to copper and try something else. I almost wrapped lace ribbon around the outside and clear lacquered to make a copper lace pattern. As boring as it sounds, I may just do it all oxide, with the only copper on the lights. Any ideas for designes? Maybe a couple copper pinstripes? Silhouettes of Stsr Was characters? As my son says: "you won't see the design once it's covered in dust"
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| Posted: Wed Jan 22nd, 2014 04:35 am |
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154th Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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Andrew, that is the best striped one I have seen.
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| Posted: Wed Jan 22nd, 2014 05:18 am |
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155th Post |
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Andrew Block Guest
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Wish it was my work, but it is that of the Masterful Mark Neely at Vintage Fans. I love the design, I think the purpose originally was that it looks like a solid color until you get up close.
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| Posted: Fri Jan 24th, 2014 04:05 am |
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156th Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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I buffed out the big parts and hope to do the oxide this weekend. I would have finished by now, but my 9-5 job gets in my way. Attached Image (viewed 1536 times):
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| Posted: Fri Jan 24th, 2014 04:07 am |
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157th Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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I'm pretty sure I'm going to do a pinstripe around the perimeter (side) of the main case, repeating the knot six times. If if looks bad, I'll buff it out and do something different: Attached Image (viewed 1463 times):
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| Posted: Mon Jan 27th, 2014 12:15 am |
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158th Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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I printed the pinstripe pattern on sticker paper and stuck it on the fan case: Attached Image (viewed 1524 times):
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| Posted: Mon Jan 27th, 2014 12:17 am |
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159th Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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Next, I cut out the stripes with an Exacto. I'm going to spray clear lacquer to protect the copper pin stripes, then dip in liver of sulphur to make the rest of the fan black: Attached Image (viewed 1504 times):
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| Posted: Mon Jan 27th, 2014 01:55 am |
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160th Post |
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Tom Dreesen AFCA Member
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That looks great David. It seems there are many who have no life, er, an obsession.
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| Posted: Mon Jan 27th, 2014 03:37 am |
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161st Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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I hope it works, cus this is a lot of work. I chased each edge with an Exacto when removing the mask because I did not want to risk lifting the lacquer up. Also, the mask left some adhesive in a few areas. I'll have to get this off before oxidizing. When I got done removing the mask, I saw that I made some of the knots with more loops than others. I guess it adds character. This was caused by the stencil getting clipped off when printing and I didn't notice and didn't have more sticker paper, so I spliced the pattern on the knots. Attached Image (viewed 1605 times):
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| Posted: Tue Jan 28th, 2014 01:32 am |
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162nd Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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I mixed up a fan-sized tub of liver of sulphur. 4 gals of distilled water and 30 tsp gel. Attached Image (viewed 1559 times): Last edited on Tue Jan 28th, 2014 01:34 am by David Hoatson |
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| Posted: Tue Jan 28th, 2014 01:34 am |
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163rd Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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I won't know for sure until tomorrow when I buff it out, but it looks good so far: Attached Image (viewed 1535 times):
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| Posted: Tue Jan 28th, 2014 09:08 pm |
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164th Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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Oil cup polished: Attached Image (viewed 1465 times): Last edited on Tue Jan 28th, 2014 09:22 pm by David Hoatson |
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| Posted: Wed Jan 29th, 2014 02:40 am |
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165th Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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I buffed out the motor case. It has a cool look, but some defects if you look too hard: I buffed through to copper some places. I may reoxide these areas. Attached Image (viewed 1523 times):
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| Posted: Wed Jan 29th, 2014 05:03 am |
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166th Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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Cutaway of a modern Hunter Original: Attached Image (viewed 1427 times):
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| Posted: Wed Jan 29th, 2014 05:04 am |
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167th Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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Very similar to the antique fans Attached Image (viewed 1494 times):
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| Posted: Wed Jan 29th, 2014 05:13 am |
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168th Post |
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Andrew Block Guest
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Well thats the cutaway of the *previous* Hunter Original, which was discontinued in 2001-2002 I think.
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| Posted: Wed Jan 29th, 2014 05:19 am |
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169th Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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I'm going to buy this Jandus and make two cutaway models. Attached Image (viewed 1526 times):
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| Posted: Wed Jan 29th, 2014 05:22 pm |
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170th Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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Just joking about the Jandus. I would be more inclined to make a cut away model of my boss than to damage such a wonderful fan. I an installing the stator today since we have a rare ice/snow storm here in SC and driving would certainly result in death. I cleaned the holes out with a tap, got long studs from McMaster, double nutted them, and screwed them in. Attached Image (viewed 1473 times): Last edited on Wed Jan 29th, 2014 09:35 pm by David Hoatson |
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| Posted: Wed Jan 29th, 2014 05:24 pm |
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171st Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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I slid the stator over the studs, added 2 washers and a nut to each stud, and snugged them down Attached Image (viewed 1424 times):
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| Posted: Wed Jan 29th, 2014 05:25 pm |
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172nd Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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Another view: Attached Image (viewed 1535 times):
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| Posted: Wed Jan 29th, 2014 05:29 pm |
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173rd Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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I tightened the nuts, one turn at a time, doing a pattern of every other nut. I used a vernier caliper to always keep the distance between the top of the stator and case the same all the way around, so the stator is pulled down straight. This took a half hour, but is important. Attached Image (viewed 1463 times):
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| Posted: Wed Jan 29th, 2014 05:31 pm |
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174th Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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The only nuts I had were small hex brass nuts for Emerson desk fans and I was afraid they would strip, but it did not take a lot of force. Attached Image (viewed 1543 times): Last edited on Sat Mar 1st, 2014 09:43 pm by David Hoatson |
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| Posted: Wed Jan 29th, 2014 05:32 pm |
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175th Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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Stator fully seated. I'm relieved. Attached Image (viewed 1482 times):
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| Posted: Wed Jan 29th, 2014 11:14 pm |
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176th Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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To run the lights that I am adding, I planned on running two extra wires down the axle, from the ceiling to the oil cup, where I would splice in the hot and neutral wires from the 4 light arms. Originally, there were four wires in the axle going to the switch. They were twisted together and took up all the space inside the axle. A bundle of twisted wires takes up more space that straight wires, so I straightened the wires before I fed them down the axle. Turned out that there was space for one extra wire, but two would be a problem. Appliances don't care what is neutral and what is hot, but the C-18 colored the AC terminal screws Gold (for Hot) and Silver (for Neutral). Their idea was to run the Hot to the switch so when the switch is off, the fan has no Hot voltage. However, looking at the schematic, you can see that even when the switch is off, the Speed Coil is Hot. Attached Image (viewed 1469 times): Last edited on Sat Mar 1st, 2014 09:45 pm by David Hoatson |
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| Posted: Wed Jan 29th, 2014 11:17 pm |
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177th Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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I can run the lights with one wire if I share the Hot that is already wired to the switch. To do this, the Neutral and Hot need to be reassigned: Hot to Silver, Neutral to Gold: Attached Image (viewed 1512 times):
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| Posted: Thu Jan 30th, 2014 12:33 am |
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178th Post |
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Tom Dreesen AFCA Member
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David, I am no motor man, but I believe you have that diagram wrong. I can usu follow electrons, and yours have too many of them going to wrong places. There are 4 terminals on a 3 speed switch. Power in, staight power out, and the other 2 for the speed coil. No common goes to the switch. On your drawing, straight power out would be what you have as C. Attached Image (viewed 1456 times):
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| Posted: Thu Jan 30th, 2014 12:54 am |
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179th Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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I'll take a look at it. Last edited on Thu Jan 30th, 2014 01:00 am by David Hoatson |
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| Posted: Thu Jan 30th, 2014 01:02 am |
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180th Post |
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Tom Dreesen AFCA Member
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Power to the switch (usu labeled L for line). Straight power out from switch (usu 1) to stator, med tap of coil to 2, low to 3. No power to coil except through switch.
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| Posted: Thu Jan 30th, 2014 01:11 am |
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181st Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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If you start at the silver terminal, current goes through the stator to the switch common. On "1" (high), current goes out the switch to the gold - stator gets 120 VAC. On "2" (medium), the current from the switch goes through half the speed coil, then to the gold. On "3" (low), the current from the switch goes through the whole speed coil, then to the gold. My Westy was wired like you were saying - hot to the switch common, then the speed coil, then the stator, and out the neutral. Switch-speedcoil-stator. The Hunter is wired stator-switch-speedcoil. Last edited on Thu Jan 30th, 2014 01:12 am by David Hoatson |
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| Posted: Thu Jan 30th, 2014 01:18 am |
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182nd Post |
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Tom Dreesen AFCA Member
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It is certainly possible that the C-18 was wired that way (I have not done 1 but I strongly doubt it came that way from the factory), but numerous C-17s, R-52s, etc I have done were NOT wired that way. They are wired as I modified your diagram.
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| Posted: Thu Jan 30th, 2014 04:31 am |
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183rd Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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Starting to look like a fan. How should I restore the spider nests? Attached Image (viewed 1504 times):
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| Posted: Thu Jan 30th, 2014 06:55 am |
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184th Post |
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Louis Weedman AFCA Member
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Wow, amazing work on that! I can't wait to see it up and running. Last edited on Thu Jan 30th, 2014 06:55 am by Louis Weedman |
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| Posted: Thu Jan 30th, 2014 02:16 pm |
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185th Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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Thanks. It will be nice if it runs. Maybe I'll take it to the Aiken SC meet if Darryl Hudson can lend me a ceiling hook.
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| Posted: Sat Feb 1st, 2014 03:52 am |
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186th Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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In the fan testing facility (garage) for final assembly: Attached Image (viewed 1411 times):
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| Posted: Sat Feb 1st, 2014 03:54 am |
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187th Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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. Attached Image (viewed 1466 times): Last edited on Sat Feb 1st, 2014 03:55 am by David Hoatson |
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| Posted: Sat Feb 1st, 2014 04:06 am |
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188th Post |
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Tom Dreesen AFCA Member
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Looks great David. Does no one finish garages anymore?
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| Posted: Sat Feb 1st, 2014 04:12 am |
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189th Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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Tom, it was open studs when I moved in. I insulated and dry walled, but I suck at taping the joints and gave up. Maybe I should join a dry wall forum. Last edited on Sat Feb 1st, 2014 04:15 am by David Hoatson |
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| Posted: Sat Feb 1st, 2014 05:11 am |
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190th Post |
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Andrew Block Guest
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Looks awesome David. I'm finishing up a "fake" type 52 as we speak. Did you have trouble fitting the light connections and the switch back in the nose of that fan?
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| Posted: Sat Feb 1st, 2014 05:44 am |
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191st Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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I'll find out tomorrow. I'll have two solder connections of 5 wires each for the lights. I'll try to do the solder outside the oil cup, then coil up the slack in the oil cup above the switch. There is a space 1" high x 2" diameter above the switch. Attached Image (viewed 1417 times):
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| Posted: Sat Feb 1st, 2014 07:00 am |
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192nd Post |
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Andrew Block Guest
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I think it just depends on where the lights are drilled out. Some are drilled higher, some are drilled lower. Mine has none. And I'm just doing an on-off switch rather than a 3 speed (toasted speed coil).
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| Posted: Sat Feb 1st, 2014 07:42 am |
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193rd Post |
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Tom Dreesen AFCA Member
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David Hoatson wrote: Tom, it was open studs when I moved in. I insulated and dry walled, but I suck at taping the joints and gave up. Maybe I should join a dry wall forum. At least you have a garage. The few times I have had one, they were old and bare studs and I almost always had less weather resistant stuff than a car to put in it.
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| Posted: Sun Feb 2nd, 2014 12:20 am |
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194th Post |
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Tom Dreesen AFCA Member
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David Hoatson wrote: If you start at the silver terminal, current goes through the stator to the switch common. On "1" (high), current goes out the switch to the gold - stator gets 120 VAC. On "2" (medium), the current from the switch goes through half the speed coil, then to the gold. On "3" (low), the current from the switch goes through the whole speed coil, then to the gold. My Westy was wired like you were saying - hot to the switch common, then the speed coil, then the stator, and out the neutral. Switch-speedcoil-stator. The Hunter is wired stator-switch-speedcoil. OK David. I am going to walk back a little. The diagram as I modified it is how Emerson does it (been working on those lately). I just pulled out of the pile a Memphis R-52 in great original condition. It has a 3 speed A-H&H pull instead of a snap. Hot down to the switch and all 3 feeds go to the coil, I assume the high also. Only 1 out of coil to stator (total 4 wires). It is so nice I do not need to do anything with the wiring and a few touchups, so I don't want to try to get readings off the coil. Attached Image (viewed 1413 times): Last edited on Sun Feb 2nd, 2014 12:39 am by Tom Dreesen |
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| Posted: Sun Feb 2nd, 2014 12:38 am |
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195th Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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Thanks, Tom. Also, I'm sorry to hear that you used to ride Bultacos. I started on a CT-70, then Penton 125, Husky 250, Yamaha MX400B, YZ400, YZ490, YZ80, Z50, YZ250F, PW80, YZ85, and another YZ250F. I still have the last three.
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| Posted: Sun Feb 2nd, 2014 01:19 am |
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196th Post |
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Tom Dreesen AFCA Member
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David Hoatson wrote: Thanks, Tom. Also, I'm sorry to hear that you used to ride Bultacos. I started on a CT-70, then Penton 125, Husky 250, Yamaha MX400B, YZ400, YZ490, YZ80, Z50, YZ250F, PW80, YZ85, and another YZ250F. I still have the last three. Just one, badly, for a short time. This was the era of those Public Service spots of the bursting melons on the highway and my wife worked for the Head Injury Association. And I was in grad school at a medical school with lots of med student friends.... The in house black humor joke of what do you call motorcycle riders ... Organ donors was all to close to home. I decided I would improve my odds with 2 more wheels.
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| Posted: Sun Feb 2nd, 2014 01:50 am |
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197th Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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Even jumping 40' through the air on a Motox track is safer than the road.
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| Posted: Sun Feb 2nd, 2014 02:12 am |
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198th Post |
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Tom Dreesen AFCA Member
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Sounds like a discussion best done with a beverage in hand. I looked at some old fan photos. Here is a Fulton R-52 that looks to be the same coil. Attached Image (viewed 1434 times):
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| Posted: Sun Feb 23rd, 2014 01:35 am |
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199th Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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I finally finished the lamp wiring. Soldered, then several layers of friction tape: Attached Image (viewed 1396 times):
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| Posted: Sun Feb 23rd, 2014 01:36 am |
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200th Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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The wiring tucked in with room to spare: Attached Image (viewed 1410 times):
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| Posted: Sun Feb 23rd, 2014 01:37 am |
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201st Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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Got the switch back on: Attached Image (viewed 1570 times):
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| Posted: Sun Feb 23rd, 2014 01:41 am |
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202nd Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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And hung it in my son's room, using modern Hunter hanger and 2-piece canopy. The hanger quality was pretty good. I'll get better pictures in the daytime. I still need to clean up and mount the blades. I'm 6'4" and don't hit my head on the lights. Attached Image (viewed 1488 times):
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| Posted: Sun Feb 23rd, 2014 01:50 am |
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203rd Post |
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Tom Dreesen AFCA Member
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David Hoatson wrote: And hung it in my son's room, using modern Hunter hanger and 2-piece canopy. The hanger quality was pretty good. I'll get better pictures in the daytime. I still need to clean up and mount the blades. I'm 6'4" and don't hit my head on the lights. Looks great David. The newer Hunter hanger parts are acceptable to most everyone esp. hanging on an 8 foot ceiling.
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| Posted: Sun Feb 23rd, 2014 02:20 am |
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204th Post |
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Steve Cunningham Administrator 
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You can remove the stator but it's a lot of trouble. Hunter centered the stator, the poured hot lead between the stator and housing, then tightened the screws. We just worked around it. If you insist on removing the stator do so. Then install the rotor, put the stator back in. Put shim stock evenly around the stator where it meets the rotor. Once you're sure it's evenly spaced, squeeze silicon sealant where the lead was. Tighten the screws, and remove the shim stock. But it's easier to work around.
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| Posted: Sun Feb 23rd, 2014 02:34 am |
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205th Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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I think the new Hunter Original or Hotel (with the blade pitch adjuster) still use poured lead. I wonder if it deadens the sound? I was able to get the stator out without dislodging the lead, then remounted the stator tight against the lead, still centered.
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| Posted: Sun Feb 23rd, 2014 09:31 pm |
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206th Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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The blades, especially on the top, had a lot of paint spatter when I got it. I was able to use lacquer thinner to wipe off most of the paint, but I gently scraped off some paint that the solvent wouldn't touch. Then, a wipe with lacquer thinner seemed to melt the old finish, then it dryed clean and shiny. Attached Image (viewed 1432 times):
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| Posted: Sun Feb 23rd, 2014 09:33 pm |
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207th Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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It runs well with no out of ballance. It doesn't seem to move a lot of air, but I think this is 'cus it's close to the ceiling. I'm happy with it. Attached Image (viewed 1484 times):
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| Posted: Mon Feb 24th, 2014 01:56 am |
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208th Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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Video: http://youtu.be/Ck3rgpk6bqQ
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| Posted: Mon Feb 24th, 2014 03:24 am |
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209th Post |
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Louis Weedman AFCA Member
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Wow, that looks amazing! Great job! I see how the modern Hunter Original canopy is great for the low ceiling installation. It still has a nice seamless look I would say. Love it!
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| Posted: Tue Feb 25th, 2014 02:43 am |
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210th Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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Night shot blades spinning (I obviously have nothing better to do): Attached Image (viewed 1327 times):
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| Posted: Sat Jul 5th, 2014 04:06 am |
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211th Post |
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Andrew Block Guest
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Not to dredge up an old thread but you mentioned the fan not moving much air. Does yours have a tendency to "flatten out" as it runs? I've noticed the force of the air sometimes pushes the adjusting race down.
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| Posted: Sat Jul 5th, 2014 04:49 am |
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212th Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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It seems to be fine. The blade pitch does not move by itself. It's windier than my crappy Chinese fan in the bedroom.
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| Posted: Sat Jul 5th, 2014 04:54 am |
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213th Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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For $175 plus shipping, you can get one of the new Hunters on eBay. The pictures are real bad, but it looks like an Adjust Air Hotel Fan, only a couple years old, but old-school quality: View item: VINTAGE HUNTER ORIGINAL OLD TIME CELING FAN End time: Jul 8, 2014, 1:25:18 PM EDT
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| Posted: Fri Jun 12th, 2015 05:03 am |
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214th Post |
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David Hoatson Guest
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I figured I'd dust off this old thread. My favorite. Love the shiny gray copper oxide finish. Attached Image (viewed 1304 times): Last edited on Fri Jun 12th, 2015 05:03 am by David Hoatson |
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| Posted: Fri Jun 12th, 2015 05:55 am |
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215th Post |
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Jeff Whitfield AFCA Member 
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Nice job
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| Posted: Sat Oct 10th, 2015 10:29 pm |
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216th Post |
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Lamar Bass Guest 
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Great job, David, and two other comments; 99% through this thread I was delighted to see something I knew a little about, sheetrock work, and comment # 2, I plan to make dad-gummed sure you never see one of my projects!
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