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R&M 3500 fan choke coil  Rate Topic 
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 Posted: Tue Sep 12th, 2017 04:51 pm
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Joe DeVoe
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The fan is an R&M 3500 AC/DC model.  I need to have this flat looking coil rewound.  Does anybody know someone who does this or I guess how I might do it myself.  It uses dichrome wire of a very thin nature.  Haven't disassemble it yet to see how it is put together and don't know what resistance it would be.  Any help is sure appreciated.  The pic shows the brush unit to btw so ignore that. 


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 Posted: Wed Sep 13th, 2017 01:07 am
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Russ Huber
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Get yourself a half wave diode(rectifier) with overkill 3 amp. 1000 volt rating for pennies on the dollar.  Wrap one lead around one terminal, and the other lead around the other terminal(image of switch).  The diode won't cook like nichrome, yet it will reduce fan motor speed significantly(roughly 700 RPM) for a low speed.

Attached Image (viewed 332 times):

fans 1 5740.jpg

Last edited on Wed Sep 13th, 2017 01:08 am by Russ Huber

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 Posted: Wed Sep 13th, 2017 04:14 am
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Jeff Jones
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2nd the diode option. My coil still works. but I opted to disconnect it b/c of how hot it gets and use the diode instead.  It works very well.

Last edited on Wed Sep 13th, 2017 04:14 am by Jeff Jones

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 Posted: Wed Sep 13th, 2017 04:29 pm
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Russ Huber
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Once again, the diode not only converts AC to DC current, it machine guns DC pulses to the fan motor thus the term...HALF WAVE DIODE. The diode eliminates the bottom half of the AC sine wave, creating a chopped DIRECT CURRENT.  The DC pulses are so fast that all you will notice is motor speed reduction.  

Attached Image (viewed 292 times):

KjTDZ.jpg

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 Posted: Wed Sep 13th, 2017 07:12 pm
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Joe DeVoe
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Wow is all I can say.  Thank you all for getting back to me and giving me this option to get things going again.  May I ask how you knew this?

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 Posted: Wed Sep 13th, 2017 07:24 pm
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Russ Huber
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Joe DeVoe wrote: May I ask how you knew this?

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!cid_C39B0E459C7A4B6E874CC6651092C63E@Toshiba0001.JPG

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 Posted: Wed Sep 13th, 2017 07:40 pm
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Joe DeVoe
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Okay, back again as Radioshack isn't in business anymore so that number doesn't help too much.  Now, I did give that number to a site called NTEPARTSDIRECT.COM and they crossed referenced it to NTE125 at this address: http://www.nteinc.com/diodes/general-purpose.php?a=12?a=12.  Can someone electronically knowledgable verify this diode is correct per that spec.  NTE125 is at the bottom of that chart.  Their guy spoke a different lingo than I and wasn't helpful at all.  

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 Posted: Wed Sep 13th, 2017 07:59 pm
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Chad Hunter
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PM me your address and I will send you a couple

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IMG_1068.JPG

Last edited on Wed Sep 13th, 2017 08:03 pm by Chad Hunter

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 Posted: Thu Sep 14th, 2017 12:22 am
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Joe DeVoe
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Interesting too is to see you appear to have the same fan as I am working on... the R&M 3500. Do I have the year correct at 1917?

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 Posted: Thu Sep 14th, 2017 12:40 am
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Joe DeVoe
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Sorry to belittle this but thoughts arise.  In the above examples some talk about low speed, but what I'm doing is switching from AC to DC, which I'm not sure why they do this unless it was to slow down the fan.  Current then would flow to the rotor via the brushes and turn I'm guessing, just slower???  The wiring for this is confusing to me as both the brushes and the AC flow to the stator.  Must be if I get it wire back correctly then current from the stator goes to the brushes and powers it up that way versus the other way around for AC.  so guru's, did I explain this to myself correctly?  

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 Posted: Thu Sep 14th, 2017 12:52 am
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Russ Huber
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You can BUY IT NOW a small pile of those diodes on ebay for peanuts if you needed to.

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 Posted: Thu Sep 14th, 2017 01:32 am
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Russ Huber
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Your fan hit the market in 20. There are two models, the 3500 and the 3504.  Easy to spot without reading the badge, the 3500 has an internal cast in cavity packed with oil soaked felt. The 3504 must of came later with oil cups. 

Attached Image (viewed 242 times):

3504.jpg

Last edited on Thu Sep 14th, 2017 01:34 am by Russ Huber

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 Posted: Thu Sep 14th, 2017 01:42 am
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Russ Huber
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Joe DeVoe wrote: Sorry to belittle this but thoughts arise.  In the above examples some talk about low speed, but what I'm doing is switching from AC to DC, which I'm not sure why they do this unless it was to slow down the fan.
These UNIVERSAL MOTOR fans were marketed for either AC or DC current.  The reason for the DC position was the fan would run at higher RPMs on DC current as opposed to AC. Thus the nichrome wind in series with the DC position in an attempt to PRODUCE EQUAL RPM SPEED ON EITHER AC OR DC CURRENT.


THE FAN MOTOR IS DESIGNED TO RUN ON EITHER AC OR DC CURRENT ON EITHER THE AC OR DC SWITCH SELECTIONS.

Last edited on Thu Sep 14th, 2017 05:34 am by Russ Huber

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 Posted: Thu Sep 14th, 2017 08:07 pm
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Joe DeVoe
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Thanks for the info on what was being done or tried with the AD/DC option.  Joe

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 Posted: Fri Sep 15th, 2017 01:26 am
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Russ Huber
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.

Attached Image (viewed 189 times):

R&M20.jpg

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 Posted: Fri Sep 15th, 2017 12:01 pm
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Joe DeVoe
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Russ you are a wealth of info. Thanks for this article as I will print it out to keep with the fan.

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 Posted: Fri Sep 15th, 2017 04:31 pm
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Russ Huber
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These little 8" mighty mouse R&M fans in my book are under rated.  The fan motor housing and base are beefy cast iron.  R&M cut corners a bit short using the composite brush holder, and steel trimmings. Other than that you could but this little guy up to a 8" Menominee minus its brass trimmings.




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 Posted: Fri Sep 15th, 2017 04:50 pm
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Joe DeVoe
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Do you know where I could get replacement brush caps? I fixed mine per se, but now that I look at your pic I see the wire comes out the bottom and mine come out the end. My fix with black epoxy worked well with new wire of course, but now I'm embarassed with the wire not coming out correctly. Couldn't tell since that end was broken. Don't think I can redo it.

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 Posted: Fri Sep 15th, 2017 05:15 pm
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Russ Huber
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Joe DeVoe wrote:
Do you know where I could get replacement brush caps?
I got lucky with my last 3500 find, an AFCA member had one to spare. And I emphasize the word ...LUCKY.

You could actually modify replacements for the brush holders using creativity with round/square brass tube stock and make a mold for the surrounding epoxy insulation, or delrin/heat shrink over round brass stock.  

Attached Image (viewed 156 times):

076fb852f93a04d429490f01008b761ca2.jpg

Last edited on Fri Sep 15th, 2017 05:25 pm by Russ Huber

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 Posted: Fri Sep 15th, 2017 05:45 pm
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Joe DeVoe
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Hmmm, can't say I'm seeing how this would be done. Anyone have plans for such?

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 Posted: Mon Sep 18th, 2017 01:59 pm
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Joe DeVoe
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I received your diodes Russ and installed one. Have to wait for my new soldering iron as my old one burned out. Then I'll finish wiring duties and start to put back together and see how things work. The wiring for this one is new to me so I hope the drawing and pics I took get me back running ok. I'd be glad to pay for your expenses as I know there is postage and parts cost.

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 Posted: Mon Sep 18th, 2017 02:32 pm
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Chad Hunter
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That was me that sent you the diodes and you don't owe me anything. This is one of the ways I give back to a club that has helped me so many times.

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 Posted: Mon Sep 18th, 2017 05:37 pm
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Joe DeVoe
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Oh I'm sorry for getting the name wrong Chad. Guess I didn't read the thread correctly although I have your envelope here. Thanks then for being that kind of person Chad. A great help for sure and a wonderful way to get to know such people.

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 Posted: Thu Sep 21st, 2017 01:49 am
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Joe DeVoe
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Given this great solution, would something like this also work with three speed fans where you have the multi-lead coil? If not and the coil is bad are there places that do the rewinding? I've seen some uTube people doing it but no indication who so one might utilize their services.

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 Posted: Thu Sep 21st, 2017 05:03 pm
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Joe DeVoe
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Just wanted to say that the fan is running beautifully now and again thanks for the diode/rectifier help. I'll add a pic as it is now with the blade and cage in the process of being refinished (as soon as I figure out how to add a pic). The fan paint is original, just cleaned and polished.

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 Posted: Thu Sep 21st, 2017 11:22 pm
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Joe DeVoe
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Here is the R&M 3500 before I started and to date after cleaning and "diode" solution per this thread.  Blade and cage are being painted as I write.  Thanks to Chad and Russ for getting past the electrical hurdle and learning many new things about this kind of fan.  Sorry about the sideways thing on the first photo.  Something I learned about here too on taking a pic with iPhone.  







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