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ILG 363 36” exhaust fans  Rate Topic 
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 Posted: Sun Jun 3rd, 2018 09:22 pm
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Robert Avary
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Picked up two ILG Model 363 exhaust fans off craigslist a few weeks back, just getting around to messing with them, got a temporary stand built for one. Ready to test......but need some more info on the wiring side. Single phase, 115v, 5/8hp, 2speed??? 570 & 400 rpm? 8.6 amps. Six leads into the motor, 1,2,6 tied to white wire. 3,4 tied to red wire, and lead 5 tied to black wire. Haven’t ohmed anything yet. Real question is...is it two speed? Black and red being high and low and white being neutral as usual or something else. My first encounter with one of these ilg motors. Don’t have a good schematic to go on. More pics and info to come later!!!

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 Posted: Sun Jun 3rd, 2018 09:49 pm
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Dan Foley
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Hi Rob! Thanks for sharing, those old ILGs are amazing machines. Bringing home two of them is a great haul, I'm still waiting to add one larger than 16" to my own collection.

As for that motor, it does seem like it's a two speed based on what's stamped on the tag. But I can't be 100% sure on that, so hopefully someone else can chime in.  Also if I'm not mistaken, that motor may require a start/run capacitor as well.

Last edited on Sun Jun 3rd, 2018 09:55 pm by Dan Foley

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 Posted: Sun Jun 3rd, 2018 10:19 pm
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Robert Avary
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Thanks Dan, yes it was a great find, when I went to pick them up the guy from the company said if no one had got them in the next couple days they were off to scrap, he had dropped the price twice already. I would say I got lucky to find them. I think it was sometime late last summer I lucked up and grabbed 2 ilg fly fans, 3 frigid exhaust fans and a Patton exhaust fan from a school being demoed....that’ll be discussed more when I have time to take pictures. :D

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 Posted: Sun Jun 3rd, 2018 10:54 pm
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David Allen
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Robert Avary wrote:









Picked up two ILG Model 363 exhaust fans off craigslist a few weeks back, just getting around to messing with them, got a temporary stand built for one. Ready to test......but need some more info on the wiring side. Single phase, 115v, 5/8hp, 2speed??? 570 & 400 rpm? 8.6 amps. Six leads into the motor, 1,2,6 tied to white wire. 3,4 tied to red wire, and lead 5 tied to black wire. Haven’t ohmed anything yet. Real question is...is it two speed? Black and red being high and low and white being neutral as usual or something else. My first encounter with one of these ilg motors. Don’t have a good schematic to go on. More pics and info to come later!!!




Very nice fans!  I think Ilg are my favorite fans.  One of our members is a true expert on them and I believe he will have more on the wiring.

These fans require a capacitor to run, and yes they are 2-speed.  The 2-speed function is rather complex, as it changes the windings of the motor from a series to a parallel configuration.

I am about to have to go for a while, but will have a lot more later on!  Can't wait to see these run again!  Thanks for saving them from the scrap heap. Lots of us are grateful for that.

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 Posted: Mon Jun 4th, 2018 12:17 am
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David Allen
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Very often the switch located at the fan motor (included with your fan) is part of a safety thermal shutdown system. Originally, there would have been a spring-loaded switch that would turn OFF by its self. It was held in the ON position by a small link made of two pieces of copper bonded with a special lead alloy. This alloy would melt if there was a fire in the building, thereby stopping the fan and preventing it from fanning the fire and making it more quickly go out of control.



That switch was most likely NOT the main switch for the fan.  There would have been another "power box" containing a rotary Hi-Off-Low-Off switch, and the capacitor for the motor.



The way yours is wired, it is probably wired for high speed only, with the red and black being power and capacitor; and the white being neutral.



I am hoping that our resident Ilg expert can help with a factory wiring diagram. and capacitor size.



Because you have the existing wiring configuration, this will be a big help. You can probably bet that the wire 5 is the capacitor wire since it's all by its self.  Attached is an Ilg 163 motor wiring diagram. Probably the wire labeled 1R in this diagram is your wire 6. The rest makes sense. You will definitely need a larger capacitor than the 163, but this may give you an idea of the wiring design.



EDIT: Look just below the motor in the switch box. This is the original thermal cutout. It is a spring-return-to-OFF switch with a fusible link over it that will melt and release the switch at a high termperature.






Attachment: Ilg_163_wiring.pdf (Downloaded 46 times)

Last edited on Mon Jun 4th, 2018 12:24 am by David Allen

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 Posted: Mon Jun 4th, 2018 12:48 am
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Robert Avary
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David, yes I definitely agree with the “thermal cutout” purpose, in addition from some installs I have done, electrical code requires a disconnecting means close by the unit if the breaker in not within sight. Dual purpose use of the Square D manual motor starter? I’d say so. That was one other question I had in mind....where’s my capacitor??? So knowing it did require one, meant not everything was here. This is something I’ll have to study on.

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 Posted: Mon Jun 4th, 2018 12:52 am
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David Allen
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Robert Avary wrote: David, yes I definitely agree with the “thermal cutout” purpose, in addition from some installs I have done, electrical code requires a disconnecting means close by the unit if the breaker in not within sight. Dual purpose use of the Square D manual motor starter? I’d say so. That was one other question I had in mind....where’s my capacitor??? So knowing it did require one, meant not everything was here. This is something I’ll have to study on.

Definitely.  I didn't notice the solder pot style overload protector in the Square-D switch. You're right on there for sure. 



The people who removed the fan probably neglected to grab the capacitor box when they took the fans out.



I'm hoping we can get some info on what would be a good value to start with for capacitor testing. Privately talking to another guy trying to get capacitor info.



It does seem the wiring diagram I posted is correct; other than the wire labeled 1A on my diagram is labeled 6 on your motor. The capacitor would probably be in the 5 ot 10 uF 440V range, but need to confirm that.

EDIT: Try a 30 to 35 uF capacitor.


Last edited on Mon Jun 4th, 2018 12:53 am by David Allen

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 Posted: Mon Jun 4th, 2018 01:03 am
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Robert Avary
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Yes, I hate they didn’t get the switch box, but that’s no problem. Always love a good project with challenges. On a side note they guy I bought them from wants me to send him a video once I get them running. Not many people care about things after they get rid of them! Good deal, thanks David, I’ll see if I might have one sitting on the shelf. 

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 Posted: Mon Jun 4th, 2018 01:08 am
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David Allen
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Robert Avary wrote: Yes, I hate they didn’t get the switch box, but that’s no problem. Always love a good project with challenges. On a side note they guy I bought them from wants me to send him a video once I get them running. Not many people care about things after they get rid of them! Good deal, thanks David, I’ll see if I might have one sitting on the shelf. 
It's great when someone wants to see the repairs of something they sell! It was that way with my Sturtevent-8 fans, as well.

Have you seen any of my Ilg fan builds?

Please remember to post your stand pictures!


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 Posted: Mon Jun 4th, 2018 01:24 am
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Robert Avary
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Yes I have, you sir have excellent craftsmanship!!! I was following your Sturtevent builds, both the #8 fans and the #6 blower, beautiful work! Hopefully, time permitting, I’ll turn these into box fans like you have done. I’m taking notes from the experts! I’ll try to get some more pictures tomorrow. 

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 Posted: Mon Jun 4th, 2018 03:04 am
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Duane Burright
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Those will be nice when you get them done. You've also got the right mindset to be able to get those fans running again, which is refreshing in a world where it seems most people today couldn't figure their way out of a paper bag.

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 Posted: Tue Jun 5th, 2018 08:29 pm
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David Allen
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Robert Avary wrote: Yes I have, you sir have excellent craftsmanship!!! I was following your Sturtevent builds, both the #8 fans and the #6 blower, beautiful work! Hopefully, time permitting, I’ll turn these into box fans like you have done. I’m taking notes from the experts! I’ll try to get some more pictures tomorrow. Thank you!  I appreciate the compliment on my projects.  I'm not an expert - just one who perseveres until he figures things out.  :cool:
Duane Burright wrote:Those will be nice when you get them done. You've also got the right mindset to be able to get those fans running again, which is refreshing in a world where it seems most people today couldn't figure their way out of a paper bag.

Agreed the 36" Ilgs will make great  workshop fans.  LOL I think some people couldn't figure their way out of a paper bag even if given a flashlight and a box cutter!

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 Posted: Tue Jun 5th, 2018 09:02 pm
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Dan Foley
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David Allen wrote:
Agreed the 36" Ilgs will make great  workshop fans.  LOL I think some people couldn't figure their way out of a paper bag even if given a flashlight and a box cutter!

I don't think I'd even trust their ability (or lack thereof) to handle a box cutter!  :hammer:



On topic: I can't wait to see what you do with these fans, Rob!  I also recently put together a frame for my ILG 163, and now it's a perfect roll-about box fan for the bedroom or garage.

Last edited on Tue Jun 5th, 2018 09:04 pm by Dan Foley

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 Posted: Wed Jun 6th, 2018 01:51 am
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Robert Avary
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Dan Foley wrote: David Allen wrote:
Agreed the 36" Ilgs will make great  workshop fans.  LOL I think some people couldn't figure their way out of a paper bag even if given a flashlight and a box cutter!

I don't think I'd even trust their ability (or lack thereof) to handle a box cutter!  :hammer:



On topic: I can't wait to see what you do with these fans, Rob!  I also recently put together a frame for my ILG 163, and now it's a perfect roll-about box fan for the bedroom or garage.
 That sure sounds like some of the guys I work with....:cool:  I just saw that the other day, beautiful carpentry work!! I sure would love to have one of those rolling around the house! The 36” is a tad too large for the bedroom, but who knows might I run out of room in the garage.

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 Posted: Wed Jun 6th, 2018 02:00 am
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Robert Avary
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David Allen wrote: Very often the switch located at the fan motor (included with your fan) is part of a safety thermal shutdown system. Originally, there would have been a spring-loaded switch that would turn OFF by its self. It was held in the ON position by a small link made of two pieces of copper bonded with a special lead alloy. This alloy would melt if there was a fire in the building, thereby stopping the fan and preventing it from fanning the fire and making it more quickly go out of control.



That switch was most likely NOT the main switch for the fan.  There would have been another "power box" containing a rotary Hi-Off-Low-Off switch, and the capacitor for the motor.



The way yours is wired, it is probably wired for high speed only, with the red and black being power and capacitor; and the white being neutral.



I am hoping that our resident Ilg expert can help with a factory wiring diagram. and capacitor size.



Because you have the existing wiring configuration, this will be a big help. You can probably bet that the wire 5 is the capacitor wire since it's all by its self.  Attached is an Ilg 163 motor wiring diagram. Probably the wire labeled 1R in this diagram is your wire 6. The rest makes sense. You will definitely need a larger capacitor than the 163, but this may give you an idea of the wiring design.



EDIT: Look just below the motor in the switch box. This is the original thermal cutout. It is a spring-return-to-OFF switch with a fusible link over it that will melt and release the switch at a high termperature.







David, you are correct. I had a chance to ohm out the windings and everything corresponds to the diagram you posted. Your 1R is my number 6. Now I just have to get a couple of capacitors (didn’t have any on hand) to test and see where that leads me. 

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 Posted: Wed Jun 6th, 2018 02:18 am
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Dan Foley
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Robert Avary wrote: That sure sounds like some of the guys I work with....:cool:  I just saw that the other day, beautiful carpentry work!! I sure would love to have one of those rolling around the house! The 36” is a tad too large for the bedroom, but who knows might I run out of room in the garage.


Thanks!  I haven't really done much in terms of woodworking so far, but it's something I'm looking to improve upon.  I've got a few other projects lined up, and I'll hopefully be making a few more cabinets for my smaller ILGs.  

That would be quite comical to have a 36" or larger ILG in the bedroom, but the 16" on low speed is perfect for circulating some air.  It's very quiet when it's turning at around 855 RPM.  I bet those 36" fans are extremely quiet on low speed.

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 Posted: Wed Jun 6th, 2018 02:29 am
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Robert Avary
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Dan Foley wrote: Robert Avary wrote: That sure sounds like some of the guys I work with....:cool:  I just saw that the other day, beautiful carpentry work!! I sure would love to have one of those rolling around the house! The 36” is a tad too large for the bedroom, but who knows might I run out of room in the garage.


Thanks!  I haven't really done much in terms of woodworking so far, but it's something I'm looking to improve upon.  I've got a few other projects lined up, and I'll hopefully be making a few more cabinets for my smaller ILGs.  

That would be quite comical to have a 36" or larger ILG in the bedroom, but the 16" on low speed is perfect for circulating some air.  It's very quiet when it's turning at around 855 RPM.  I bet those 36" fans are extremely quiet on low speed.

Keep up the good work, can’t wait to see more! Maybe one day I’ll come across some of the smaller models. Do want a 48” too. :D I’m sure it’ll be like a near silent hurricane, if there ever was such a thing. Once I get one up and running I’ll do my best to post a video or two, though I’m sure we could all agree videos just don’t do the fans justice, best experienced in person!!

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 Posted: Wed Jun 6th, 2018 04:37 pm
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Zachary Parr
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Hope you can get them working because they look awesome.  

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 Posted: Thu Jun 7th, 2018 03:06 pm
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Robert Avary
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Here’s a couple pics of the work stand. Nothing fancy just a quick job out of some scraps I had laying around. Going to get some wheels put on it this weekend. Time permitting I’m going to get a few caps to try out this evening. Many thanks to everyone who has provided such valuable information and motivation!! 



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 Posted: Thu Jun 7th, 2018 03:08 pm
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David Allen
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Robert Avary wrote: Here’s a couple pics of the work stand. Nothing fancy just a quick job out of some scraps I had laying around. Going to get some wheels put on it this weekend. Time permitting I’m going to get a few caps to try out this evening. Many thanks to everyone who has provided such valuable information and motivation!! 





Awesome sauce!  The stands look great and that is the beginnings of a nice box fan frame.

Can't wait to hear about the capacitor experimentation. Surely you'll get these going!

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 Posted: Thu Jun 7th, 2018 03:50 pm
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Robert Avary
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Thanks David! I’m definitely going to have to find a good body man like you did to get those dents out of the covers.:hammer:   As far as my idea on the cap test, I plan on using say a 5,10, and 20 mfd. That’ll give me some options to parallel them together and find out what works best. Testing it that way I’ll have a range from 5 mfd up to 35 mfd. 

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 Posted: Thu Jun 7th, 2018 03:57 pm
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David Allen
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Robert Avary wrote: Thanks David! I’m definitely going to have to find a good body man like you did to get those dents out of the covers.:hammer:   As far as my idea on the cap test, I plan on using say a 5,10, and 20 mfd. That’ll give me some options to parallel them together and find out what works best. Testing it that way I’ll have a range from 5 mfd up to 35 mfd. 


Perfect idea on the cap. You just want to find the one which results in the best balance of startup speed and motor amp draw.

Yep I had to give in and have a Professional do my cover repairs. Just don't have that skill set!

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 Posted: Thu Jun 7th, 2018 04:31 pm
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Dan Foley
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Looking good, Rob! I always love how deeply pitched those blades are.

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 Posted: Thu Jun 7th, 2018 05:55 pm
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Robert Avary
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Dan Foley wrote: Looking good, Rob! I always love how deeply pitched those blades are.
 Thank you Dan! Same here!! It’s amazing to see something as intricate, robust and well manufactured as these fans are, and to think they didn’t use any computers to design it!! 

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 Posted: Thu Jun 7th, 2018 06:23 pm
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David Allen
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Robert Avary wrote: Dan Foley wrote: Looking good, Rob! I always love how deeply pitched those blades are.

 Thank you Dan! Same here!! It’s amazing to see something as intricate, robust and well manufactured as these fans are, and to think they didn’t use any computers to design it!! 


It is amazing they didn't use computers on it.  What is equally fascinating is that each wing of the Ilg fan blade is very much shaped like a bird's wing. Seems they had a design ready-made from nature.


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 Posted: Thu Jun 7th, 2018 08:21 pm
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Dan Foley
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And like most other old pieces of equipment, it's too bad that people will often chuck these into the scrap bin without a second thought. At least there are still ILGs out there in the wild, and sometimes people have the sense to keep them or sell them before tossing them out.

I'm glad the previous owner of my 16" ILG saved it, as the original bearings were completely seized up. I think most people would have just pulled it down from the wall and put it in a dumpster, when all it needed was a new set of bearings.

Last edited on Thu Jun 7th, 2018 08:21 pm by Dan Foley

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 Posted: Thu Jun 7th, 2018 09:16 pm
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Robert Avary
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Dan Foley wrote: And like most other old pieces of equipment, it's too bad that people will often chuck these into the scrap bin without a second thought. At least there are still ILGs out there in the wild, and sometimes people have the sense to keep them or sell them before tossing them out.

I'm glad the previous owner of my 16" ILG saved it, as the original bearings were completely seized up. I think most people would have just pulled it down from the wall and put it in a dumpster, when all it needed was a new set of bearings.

Ain’t that the truth! It’s a shame. That’s why there’s people like us....someone has to save and repair other peoples “junk”

And the moment we’ve all been waiting for.....good news!! GOT ONE RUNNING!!!! Bearings sound terrible on this one, but it at least it runs. And boy does it move some air! I’ll post some numbers on the cap testing here in a little while.

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 Posted: Thu Jun 7th, 2018 09:45 pm
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David Allen
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Robert Avary wrote: Dan Foley wrote: And like most other old pieces of equipment, it's too bad that people will often chuck these into the scrap bin without a second thought. At least there are still ILGs out there in the wild, and sometimes people have the sense to keep them or sell them before tossing them out.



I'm glad the previous owner of my 16" ILG saved it, as the original bearings were completely seized up. I think most people would have just pulled it down from the wall and put it in a dumpster, when all it needed was a new set of bearings.


Ain’t that the truth! It’s a shame. That’s why there’s people like us....someone has to save and repair other peoples “junk”



And the moment we’ve all been waiting for.....good news!! GOT ONE RUNNING!!!! Bearings sound terrible on this one, but it at least it runs. And boy does it move some air! I’ll post some numbers on the cap testing here in a little while.


Goody!  Goody!  Goody!

Hope for a video! :clap:

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 Posted: Fri Jun 8th, 2018 02:30 am
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Robert Avary
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Such a relief! I’ll see about getting some videos this weekend, so stay tuned! 
Now a bit of technical info. Using 5, 10, 20 mfd capacitors in a parallel configuration I was able to obtain seven different mfd ratings with only the three capacitors I had. Capable range from 5 mfd to 35 mfd. I decided to try the 20 first and go up from there. 

Capacitors used           Total mfd       Amperage
20                                   20                    7.7
20, 5                               25                    7.2
20, 10                             30                    6.5
20, 10, 5                         35                    6.7

These readings are below the nameplate rating of 8.6 amps, with the increase in mfd startup is quicker. Inrush current seemed to peak around 18-19 amps on start regardless of capacitor rating. Which I might add another 5 mfd to make 40 just to see what that ends up reading. David your recommendation was spot on if I had to say so! Thank you!

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 Posted: Fri Jun 8th, 2018 11:48 am
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David Allen
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Robert Avary wrote: Such a relief! I’ll see about getting some videos this weekend, so stay tuned! 

Now a bit of technical info. Using 5, 10, 20 mfd capacitors in a parallel configuration I was able to obtain seven different mfd ratings with only the three capacitors I had. Capable range from 5 mfd to 35 mfd. I decided to try the 20 first and go up from there. 



Capacitors used           Total mfd       Amperage

20                                   20                    7.7

20, 5                               25                    7.2

20, 10                             30                    6.5

20, 10, 5                         35                    6.7



These readings are below the nameplate rating of 8.6 amps, with the increase in mfd startup is quicker. Inrush current seemed to peak around 18-19 amps on start regardless of capacitor rating. Which I might add another 5 mfd to make 40 just to see what that ends up reading. David your recommendation was spot on if I had to say so! Thank you!


Hey that is good!  I did make the wiring diagram, however I have to give credit to Andrew Block for the capacitor sizing. He has many Ilg fans and remembered using the 30 - 35uF cap for his 30 and 36 inch models.

I'm really happy that helped you and you're moving in the right direction with your repairs!

When you get around to replacing the bearings, you may find that the new bearings are thinner than the originals. The old ones had much thicker seals on them because they didn't have the same materials we have today to make the seals. If you drive the new, thinner bearings on the shaft all the way to the step, it may give the motor a massive amount of end-thrust clearance. This will allow the shaft to slide in and out a large amount. It will cause the motor housings to wear badly in the bearing bores. It will also cause some noise.  If the new bearings are thinner, you would need to take some measurements and then carefully drive the new bearings on the shaft to just the right position.


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 Posted: Fri Jun 8th, 2018 02:54 pm
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Robert Avary
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Great to know!! Tell Andrew many thanks if you speak with him again! I did try a 40 mfd this morning and seemed a good improvement on startup speed, but only pulled 7 amps. I’m quite pleased with the results so far! I’ll be sure to remember that regarding the bearings. Now if only I can find a 3PDT switch. 

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 Posted: Fri Jun 8th, 2018 07:30 pm
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David Allen
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Robert Avary wrote: Great to know!! Tell Andrew many thanks if you speak with him again! I did try a 40 mfd this morning and seemed a good improvement on startup speed, but only pulled 7 amps. I’m quite pleased with the results so far! I’ll be sure to remember that regarding the bearings. Now if only I can find a 3PDT switch. 
I told him! 

As for the 3PDT switch, that is a common item. Look in your hometown for any good electrical supply place that caters to electricians and contractors. They will have these switches!  Just look for one which is On-Off-On. That will have an Off position in the center, and the two On positions will stay on and not spring back to Off.  If it says (On)-Off-(On) or On-Off-(On) the switch will have one or more spring-loaded positions and will be unsuitable.


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 Posted: Fri Jun 8th, 2018 11:36 pm
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Robert Avary
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Good deal! I stopped by our local motor shop (my usual supply house is bare bones and hard to deal with sometimes) and spoke with the guy I know up there and he would see about getting me a couple of switches, got two 40 mfd caps and chit chatted a little about the fans. Ive always tried to shop local family businesses, just can’t get the same service from big companies. 

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 Posted: Fri Jun 8th, 2018 11:42 pm
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Richard Daugird
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Another Ilg owner here. I really dig the cooling tube design.

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 Posted: Sat Jun 9th, 2018 12:36 am
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David Allen
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Robert Avary wrote: Good deal! I stopped by our local motor shop (my usual supply house is bare bones and hard to deal with sometimes) and spoke with the guy I know up there and he would see about getting me a couple of switches, got two 40 mfd caps and chit chatted a little about the fans. Ive always tried to shop local family businesses, just can’t get the same service from big companies. 
Agreed! It's great to do business with local places. The electrical place I use is local, Northport Electrical Supply. They treat me well.

Richard Daugird wrote:Another Ilg owner here. I really dig the cooling tube design.
:clap:

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 Posted: Sat Jun 9th, 2018 01:32 am
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Robert Avary
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Richard Daugird wrote: Another Ilg owner here. I really dig the cooling tube design.That bucket blade of yours would look great in a box similar to those that David and Dan have done! Something between the blade design and the stained wood really makes it stand out I think. Definitely a vintage look.    If I had to guess their cooling design along with such a heavily built motor greatly contributed to their longevity. It was a very unique design that worked well.

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 Posted: Mon Jun 11th, 2018 09:55 pm
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Matthew O Neill
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The refinery I work at still has several ILGs in service, when they stop running,the motor is sent out to be rewound. It’s one thing I’m glad to see, as much as things are replaced, those vintage ILGs are running 24-7.

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 Posted: Tue Jun 12th, 2018 12:07 am
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Duane Burright
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Matthew O Neill wrote: The refinery I work at still has several ILGs in service, when they stop running,the motor is sent out to be rewound. It’s one thing I’m glad to see, as much as things are replaced, those vintage ILGs are running 24-7.

That is cool. Are they the bucket blade or the weapon-like blades?

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 Posted: Tue Jun 12th, 2018 12:10 am
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Duane Burright
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Robert Avary wrote: Here’s a couple pics of the work stand. Nothing fancy just a quick job out of some scraps I had laying around. Going to get some wheels put on it this weekend. Time permitting I’m going to get a few caps to try out this evening. Many thanks to everyone who has provided such valuable information and motivation!! 




Those are in decent shape. Can't wait to see them get done.

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 Posted: Tue Jun 12th, 2018 12:19 am
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David Allen
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Matthew O Neill wrote: The refinery I work at still has several ILGs in service, when they stop running,the motor is sent out to be rewound. It’s one thing I’m glad to see, as much as things are replaced, those vintage ILGs are running 24-7.
:clap:

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