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 Posted: Fri Sep 7th, 2018 05:14 am
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Jesse Anton
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First restoration, so I'll take all the help I can get. Please correct any terminology or send me all the tutorials/how-tos you want.

I've got a Signal Electric Co. shop fan that was pulled from the rubble of a demolished house so it's a little bent out of shape here and there on the exterior. I've taken it all apart and cleaned it and I'm wondering what I need to do next.

First, some relevant pics:

ID plate: https://ibb.co/fP9qPe
Speed controler: https://ibb.co/cgJ0Pe
Stator and windings: https://ibb.co/g7Nuje
Same: https://ibb.co/bW3BVK

The insulating sleeves in the windings are crumbling like burnt Bake Lite and there are a dozen or so severed wires among the winding bundles, which can be seen in one of the photos. I also scrubbed the wire bundle not knowing any better, exposing the bare copper wire beneath (I thought it was soot ... and in my defense, there was some soot in there too, along with dirt dobber houses, exoskeletons, etc.)

There appear to be two winding wire "bunches"--the larger primary bunch and a smaller bundle inside this that sort of offsets the primary winding loops. What is the purpose of this second smaller bundle? Where/how would I start to make a wiring diagram? Once I learn the process, are there kits for the supplies that include the insulating sleeve material, epoxies, tie downs (what else would I need?)

Next: Very little of the wiring was in tact, so I'm a little clueless on how to wire up the speed switch. Any help here would be greatly appreciated. (It's a Levplier 400).

I'll need to order new cord and may or may not be able to bend the fan cage back into shape. Of course, none of that matters if I can't get this bad boy running. What's my next step? Am I looking at a rewind, and assuming so, how can I start learning/get started?

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 Posted: Fri Sep 7th, 2018 11:38 am
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Lane Shirey
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I’m sorry to say that your stator is bad. I would not try to apply power. Judging by your pic, there are more than a few coil wires that are melted or cut, it’s hard to tell. But in either case, the stator is bad. 

It will either needs to be rewound or you’ll need to find a good used one.  The stuff you cleaned off was likely to be soot from the coil burning up. 


Post a want ad on the BST thread, and you may find one. 

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 Posted: Fri Sep 7th, 2018 06:08 pm
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Jesse Anton
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I figured that those broken or severed wires were a no-go. I think I'd like to try to rewind it. Is it unrealistic to think I could do a decent job on my first go?

What all would I need supply-wise? The wire (assume a special type and specific gauge(s) are required), insulating sleeves, tie-downs, some type of epoxy? Are there kits for this type of stuff? 

As far as the know-how for the rewinding, I'm willing to study up on it a bit if anyone wants to suggest some reading material.

R

Thanks

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 Posted: Fri Sep 7th, 2018 08:03 pm
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Lane Shirey
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I certainly don’t want to deter anyone, but it’s not likely to expect that a novice to motors will have good success trying to rewind a basic stator, let alone a more complex one. 

I’ll let one of our experienced rewinders jump in if they wish, but I’ve been restoring for 5+ years and would not consider tackling a stator rewind, but best of luck if you choose to. 

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 Posted: Fri Sep 7th, 2018 08:18 pm
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Craig Robbins
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I suggest you use the search feature to read other posts about stator rewinding. The speed coil/ choke likely needs to be rewound also. There was a reason it originally failed. No kits, one set of coils are start windings and the others are run windings. Yes, it is a special type of wire (magnet wire). The gage or size needs to be measured (dial calipers) and number of turns per coil. The direction of each coil must be determined (north, south, north, south). High temperature tie string and insulation paper (fish paper). After assembly, the stator and choke should be varnished. Most people that do this have a coil winder and a good understanding of basic electricity. I personally would not do all this for that fan but if you really want to, everything you need to know can be found by searching old threads. Welcome to the forum and good luck. 

Last edited on Fri Sep 7th, 2018 08:45 pm by Craig Robbins

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 Posted: Fri Sep 7th, 2018 08:25 pm
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Jesse Anton
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Lane Shirey wrote: I certainly don’t want to deter anyone, but it’s not likely to expect that a novice to motors will have good success trying to rewind a basic stator, let alone a more complex one. 

I’ll let one of our experienced rewinders jump in if they wish, but I’ve been restoring for 5+ years and would not consider tackling a stator rewind, but best of luck if you choose to. 

Thanks Lane. I don't mind difficult, but I realize that when restoring antiques or vintages, it's not always a good idea to "learn on" any old item because you're bound to mess some things up that take it away from its original glory. 

You said basic stator and "more complex one". Is this one more complex, and if so, how?

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 Posted: Fri Sep 7th, 2018 08:30 pm
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Jesse Anton
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Craig Robbins wrote: I suggest you use the search feature to read other posts about stator rewinding. The speed coil/ choke likely needs to be rewound also. There was a reason it originally failed. Good luck and welcome to the forum.


I'll get after the search feature, and in the meantime (showing my ignorance here) can anyone tell me any pertinent identification on this motor to help me specify searches? AC induction, single or multi-phase, etc.

If there's a site that may have technical data specific to Signal Electric (Menominee Electric) using the model or serial, that'd be awesome, too.

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 Posted: Fri Sep 7th, 2018 08:48 pm
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Craig Robbins
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It is a single phase, a/c induction motor (most of them are). This one has 2 sets of 4 windings making it more complex than one with a pair or four windings. 

Last edited on Fri Sep 7th, 2018 08:51 pm by Craig Robbins

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 Posted: Mon Sep 10th, 2018 08:41 pm
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Jesse Anton
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Craig Robbins wrote: It is a single phase, a/c induction motor (most of them are). This one has 2 sets of 4 windings making it more complex than one with a pair or four windings.
Thanks for all the info Craig. Sounds like I could find a more accessible way to learn and practice rewinding than this one.

In the name of exploring more effective options, what's the alternative? What would it cost to have someone rewind it (ballpark)?

VS. What would it cost to replace it (and how identical would the replacement be? Could I just replace stator and windings from another motor (is there cross-compatibility between brands, etc.)?

I'd humor replacement, but to be honest it feels like if I replace the guts of the motor, I've essentially got a new fan. Sure it sounds strange, but it feels like I'd lose the "essence" if I replaced the motor. I'm sure I'd get over it, though, if that's my only option, but i'd like to keep as much of the original as possible, esp. when it comes to the motor.

I will have to test it, but the speed coil choke looks to be in decent condition (to me at least). The original coil covers are in tact and in good shape and a peek at the coils would suggest the same. The brass rotary switch mechanism is mechanically sound, functional and in-tact... best I can tell. Blades are pitted pretty badly, so I doubt it'd ever take the mirror-shine, polished appearance of a finely honed lethal knife blade--a look I don't particularly care for in my fans. If I can balance the blades I'll be OK with that. Tutorials suggest this would be do-able for my skillset.

I gather this fan isn't particularly appealing from a collectors point-of-view, but it's got some personal equity, and I wanted to fix it up for my grandpa. He's in his late 70s, and has raised fighting cocks his whole life, and still does. He stopped fighting them years ago, but loves to spend time with them, tend them, etc. It was his barn/cockhouse fan for years until it apparently burned up and sat around until bulldozed with the structure. My hope is to fix it up, paint it black and have an artist friend paint a gamecock or something on there, give it back to him as a gift.

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 Posted: Mon Sep 10th, 2018 10:16 pm
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Jesse Anton
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Craig Robbins wrote: I suggest you use the search feature to read other posts about stator rewinding. The speed coil/ choke likely needs to be rewound also. There was a reason it originally failed. No kits, one set of coils are start windings and the others are run windings. Yes, it is a special type of wire (magnet wire). The gage or size needs to be measured (dial calipers) and number of turns per coil. The direction of each coil must be determined (north, south, north, south). High temperature tie string and insulation paper (fish paper). After assembly, the stator and choke should be varnished. Most people that do this have a coil winder and a good understanding of basic electricity. I personally would not do all this for that fan but if you really want to, everything you need to know can be found by searching old threads. Welcome to the forum and good luck. 

You said it was AC induction, single phase ... Is it safe to say its 4 pole then? Calculating from 1525 RPM at 50-60 hz?

Since its induction, is that smaller winding set to get it going? If so, I don't recall seeing a centrifugal switch, though I don't have the parts in front of me ATM.

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