AFCA Forums Home
Home Search search Menu menu Not logged in - Login | Register
AFCA Forums > Antique Fan Collectors Association > Pre-1950 (Antique) > Stationary 10" Singer information request, if possible.

 Moderated by: Steve Cunningham, Rod Rogers, Larry Hancock
New Topic Reply Printer Friendly
Stationary 10" Singer information request, if possible.  Rate Topic 
AuthorPost
 Posted: Fri Nov 8th, 2019 05:49 am
  PMQuoteReply
1st Post
Alex Rushing
AFCA Member


Joined: Thu Dec 14th, 2006
Location: Montgomery, Alabama USA
Status: 
Offline
Ended up paying about $62 for this shipped. I had noticed in the listing photos a lack of brush cap, so I figured that was why the seller couldn't get it working. It had a cap, but the wrong one. And the spring was missing. I made a soft spring from an inkpen spring and got it fired up. Then proceeded to solder a new twisted pair black cloth wire on, and add a special vintage line switch to it and an antiqie acorn plug. I do need to order some new oil cup wicks, but assembly oil was enough to figure out the fan was in good condition. The Japan finish was nearly 100% intact, and some polish and minor touchups made it look great. It has gold painted strong heavy steel blades. The motor case/cap and base are cast iron(checked with magnet).Original Ebay listing



And after a few hours of work.





























And a video of it in action.







I couldn't find any information I could make heads or tales of. Likely my fault for being a bit flaky with research(I did try the search feature). But, if anyone has any information or history on these, I would be very appreciative!

Back To Top PMQuoteReply  

 Posted: Fri Nov 8th, 2019 08:44 am
  PMQuoteReply
2nd Post
Pete Moulds
AFCA Member


Joined: Sat Feb 25th, 2006
Location: Bumi Serpong Damai, Jakarta, Indonesia
Status: 
Offline
Hi Alex

The reason you are having problems with detailed research is that your fan is actually a Diehl fan. Diehl made fans and also made motors used by Singer in their sewing machines etc. Their factories even shared a site I believe.

Diehl went bust and was absorbed into Singer in 1918? So the Diehl division of Singer continued to make robust and quality fans which were sold in the USA as Diehls because the Diehl name was well known and respected there.

However Singer had global sales of sewing machines and decided to sell fans through their sales network. Of course the Singer name was much better known outside the US and thus they simply re-badged the Diel fans as Singer fans for the export market. The badge on yours has the curlicues on the outer ring typical of Diehl.

Your fan, if you bought it within the USA, most likely must have been re-imported.
I have a number of 16" and a couple of 12" versions of this singer fan but only saw and bought one example of a 10" like yours.

I bought all of my Singers in Egypt between 2000 and 2014. They are very well built and survive the rigours of life in Egypt better than most.
However your example is the very best I have seen. The 10" is the only one in the series where the motor has brushes.
My example lacks the brushes, the caps and the springs so I would very much appreciate any measurements and detailed pictures of yours to help me restore my sole example.

Last edited on Fri Nov 8th, 2019 08:46 am by Pete Moulds

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Fri Nov 8th, 2019 12:58 pm
  PMQuoteReply
3rd Post
Bill Hoehn
AFCA Member


Joined: Fri May 13th, 2011
Location: Chesterfield, Missouri USA
Status: 
Offline
Hey Russ,
Tell us more about Diehl---Singer---Simanco.
I just looked at some of mine;
16" Diehls on stands for use mounted on the treadle sewing machines,
12" Diehl with handle, non-osc with extended racheting neck,
11" Diehl, non-osc "The AGE CO" made for American Gas and Electric Co.,
10" Diehls, osc, one with ser.  #3011604,
9" Diehl, 110 volt DC, single speed,
9" Singer, non-osc.
Singer Ribbonaire by Simanco.

Back To Top PMQuoteReply  

 Posted: Fri Nov 8th, 2019 01:45 pm
  PMQuoteReply
4th Post
Alex Rushing
AFCA Member


Joined: Thu Dec 14th, 2006
Location: Montgomery, Alabama USA
Status: 
Offline
Pete Moulds wrote: Hi Alex

The reason you are having problems with detailed research is that your fan is actually a Diehl fan. Diehl made fans and also made motors used by Singer in their sewing machines etc. Their factories even shared a site I believe.

Diehl went bust and was absorbed into Singer in 1918? So the Diehl division of Singer continued to make robust and quality fans which were sold in the USA as Diehls because the Diehl name was well known and respected there.

However Singer had global sales of sewing machines and decided to sell fans through their sales network. Of course the Singer name was much better known outside the US and thus they simply re-badged the Diel fans as Singer fans for the export market. The badge on yours has the curlicues on the outer ring typical of Diehl.

Your fan, if you bought it within the USA, most likely must have been re-imported.
I have a number of 16" and a couple of 12" versions of this singer fan but only saw and bought one example of a 10" like yours.

I bought all of my Singers in Egypt between 2000 and 2014. They are very well built and survive the rigours of life in Egypt better than most.
However your example is the very best I have seen. The 10" is the only one in the series where the motor has brushes.
My example lacks the brushes, the caps and the springs so I would very much appreciate any measurements and detailed pictures of yours to help me restore my sole example.
Wow! Thank you so much for the detailed information, Pete! What an awesome history behind these fans!I bet this old beauty has some stories to tell about its'purchase, sparse use, and its' journey around the globe. :)
I had been running the fan for an hour and noticed it barely got warm, which is peculiar given the motor has no vent holes. Could this be why your examples survived so well in Egypt?


I'd be more than happy to bust out the ole' calipers this evening and take some measurements. :)
Mine has one complete brush cap, and one that has a slot in it that seats down into the holder. I'm guessing the knurled cap is original, but am uncertain.


I'll take some measurements this evening and post them, Pete! And if I haven't posted them by 9PM, please send me a reminder. Lets get your Singer singing again! :)

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Fri Nov 8th, 2019 01:46 pm
  PMQuoteReply
5th Post
Alex Rushing
AFCA Member


Joined: Thu Dec 14th, 2006
Location: Montgomery, Alabama USA
Status: 
Offline
Bill Hoehn wrote: Hey Russ,
Tell us more about Diehl---Singer---Simanco.
I just looked at some of mine;
16" Diehls on stands for use mounted on the treadle sewing machines,
12" Diehl with handle, non-osc with extended racheting neck,
11" Diehl, non-osc "The AGE CO" made for American Gas and Electric Co.,
10" Diehls, osc, one with ser.  #3011604,
9" Diehl, 110 volt DC, single speed,
9" Singer, non-osc.
Singer Ribbonaire by Simanco.
Awesome collection pieces, Bill!  :D

Back To Top PMQuoteReply  

 Posted: Fri Nov 8th, 2019 01:51 pm
  PMQuoteReply
6th Post
Russ Huber
AFCA Member


Joined: Mon Nov 14th, 2005
Location: Southwest, Wisconsin USA
Status: 
Offline
1922. Made in USA. Fan credited to David Hoatson. 









Attached Image (viewed 329 times):

Diehl22.jpeg.jpg

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Fri Nov 8th, 2019 02:28 pm
  PMQuoteReply
7th Post
Russ Huber
AFCA Member


Joined: Mon Nov 14th, 2005
Location: Southwest, Wisconsin USA
Status: 
Offline
Diehl was a world of cast iron DC desk fans until they followed suit with Westinghouse in 13 placing a full line of "pressed steel" component desk fans. They must of maintained their cast iron standards as well with rail and ship fans. With the start of the war Diehl must of been financially strapped as by 16 the use of pot metal on their fan motor line became more prominent. They became a division of Singer in 18 as mention above and in past.  21 was an economic slump. I see the spoke guard for sure in 22 with the funky badge either Diehl or Singer. By 24-25 Diehl had the pressed brass medallion badge. 

It appears Diehl's first in home factory made AC fan motor was 13. There is a ton of details on Diehl. 

Back To Top PMQuoteReply  

 Posted: Fri Nov 8th, 2019 02:38 pm
  PMQuoteReply
8th Post
Alex Rushing
AFCA Member


Joined: Thu Dec 14th, 2006
Location: Montgomery, Alabama USA
Status: 
Offline
Russ Huber wrote: Diehl was a world of cast iron DC desk fans until they followed suit with Westinghouse in 13 placing a full line of "pressed steel" component desk fans. They must of maintained their cast iron standards as well with rail and ship fans. With the start of the war Diehl must of been financially strapped as by 16 the use of pot metal on their fan motor line became more prominent. They became a division of Singer in 18 as mention above and in past.  21 was an economic slump. I see the spoke guard for sure in 22 with the funky badge either Diehl or Singer. By 24-25 Diehl had the pressed brass medallion badge. 

It appears Diehl's first in home factory made AC fan motor was 13. There is a ton of details on Diehl. 
Thank you very much for the excellent information, Russ! :)
It is cool they kept the cast iron usage for their mid-tier fans into the 20s. This 1901 is built like a brick crap house. The cage is one of the few I feel ok picking the fan up from.

I had been apprehensive about having purchased the fan, but with y'all's generous information, I feel like a part of fan history has been saved from possible oblivion (like making it into a silly lamp). The dust proof case is certainly a great feature as well. :)

Oh....and yeah....MY FIRST DIEHL FAN!  :clap:

Last edited on Fri Nov 8th, 2019 02:38 pm by Alex Rushing

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Fri Nov 8th, 2019 03:24 pm
  PMQuoteReply
9th Post
Bill Hoehn
AFCA Member


Joined: Fri May 13th, 2011
Location: Chesterfield, Missouri USA
Status: 
Offline
Thanks Russ,
Finding more Diehl and Simanco "stuff", especially the foot powered 16" Diehl with a SS White foot powered motor. Use that occasionally to cool off over heated fan collectors when they visit.
Also, Kim when did you (ge) make that 16" B&B front oscillator that I stumbled on this A.M.?  Tell me about it!

Back To Top PMQuoteReply  

 Posted: Fri Nov 8th, 2019 06:43 pm
  PMQuoteReply
10th Post
Russ Huber
AFCA Member


Joined: Mon Nov 14th, 2005
Location: Southwest, Wisconsin USA
Status: 
Offline
Bill Hoehn wrote: 11" Diehl, non-osc "The AGE CO" made for American Gas and Electric Co.


2 images of the unrestored version are credited to Geoff Dunaway.  The Diehl badge on the restored version is an add on. Both models had no badge.















Attached Image (viewed 281 times):

6.png

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Fri Nov 8th, 2019 09:03 pm
  PMQuoteReply
11th Post
Bill Hoehn
AFCA Member


Joined: Fri May 13th, 2011
Location: Chesterfield, Missouri USA
Status: 
Offline
My 11" Diehl (a much appreciated gift from Mark Stillman in 1995) has the brass base painted black and the original early brass badge, as does another 11" I just located.  It is a very heavy tank motor B&B, and weighs about 38 pounds.

Last edited on Fri Nov 8th, 2019 09:56 pm by Bill Hoehn

Back To Top PMQuoteReply  

 Posted: Sat Nov 9th, 2019 01:39 am
  PMQuoteReply
12th Post
Alex Rushing
AFCA Member


Joined: Thu Dec 14th, 2006
Location: Montgomery, Alabama USA
Status: 
Offline
Imgur gallery for Singer/Diehl brush measurements
There ya go, Pete!
The brushes are square with beveled corners. 0.15"x0.15".
Diagonally they are 0.18".


I just took a length measurement to give an idea of how long they probably need to be, give or take. 

Last edited on Sat Nov 9th, 2019 01:41 am by Alex Rushing

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Sat Nov 9th, 2019 05:54 am
  PMQuoteReply
13th Post
Pete Moulds
AFCA Member


Joined: Sat Feb 25th, 2006
Location: Bumi Serpong Damai, Jakarta, Indonesia
Status: 
Offline
Thanks very much Alex for the dimensions.
Looking at the other fan pictures uploaded, it looks like the caps which fit inside the tubes may be the way to go.

Back To Top PMQuoteReply  

 Posted: Sat Nov 9th, 2019 06:15 am
  PMQuoteReply
14th Post
Alex Rushing
AFCA Member


Joined: Thu Dec 14th, 2006
Location: Montgomery, Alabama USA
Status: 
Offline
You're certainly welcome, Pete!
I tend to agree at the moment. The fan I have has one cap fitting inside with a slot head, and one with a protruding knurled knob. I like the knob for quick adjusting and removal, but the recessed cap seems like it would be less prone to breakage or backing out from vibration. Of course I'll be looking to get what came on the fan originally.


And as a side note, I managed to remove the rotor and clean the commutator very well. It has very little scoring, which was nice. I used contact cleaner to clean the brushes and carefully tensioned the springs for as little commutator contact noise as possible and as smooth as the fan could run. I have it at about 14 seconds spin down now and almost no contact noise. It runs a bit faster after cleaning too. These little fans are awesome. And the sealed motor brings a feeling of safety since sparks cannot fly out anywhere and dust can't build up. Also cleaned the original oil wicks to use until my 12" roll of thin felt wick arrives.

Sorry for the obvious over-enthusiasm on my part. I am just absolutely enjoying this new fan hobby. The Singer and a Polar Cub Type H(with ornate iron base) 6" are my only two commutator fans at the moment. Will be looking for a large Oscillating Diehl for the budget collection soon!

Last edited on Sat Nov 9th, 2019 07:17 am by Alex Rushing

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Sat Nov 9th, 2019 05:54 pm
  PMQuoteReply
15th Post
Robert Todd
AFCA Member
 

Joined: Sun Nov 27th, 2005
Location:  
Status: 
Offline
I purchased an old Singer sewing machine motor a few months ago and found this old Diehl repair tag still attached to it.  Sorry about the poor quality photo, but the tag is about to disintegrate.


Back To Top PMQuoteReply  

 Posted: Sat Nov 9th, 2019 10:10 pm
  PMQuoteReply
16th Post
Alex Rushing
AFCA Member


Joined: Thu Dec 14th, 2006
Location: Montgomery, Alabama USA
Status: 
Offline
Thanks for sharing, Robert!
Quite neat to see those sorts of things. A reminder that most of the stuff we consider precious or collectible were once thought of as JUST appliances. :)

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Sun Nov 10th, 2019 05:37 pm
  PMQuoteReply
17th Post
Alex Rushing
AFCA Member


Joined: Thu Dec 14th, 2006
Location: Montgomery, Alabama USA
Status: 
Offline
Hey Pete,

I saw where George mentioned the Chinese brushes in another thread and found the 4mmX4mm to be close to 0.15". Quite close actually. I've ordered these out of curiosity.
Ebay link for brushesAnd I did pay three times what they will ship from China for, but won't have to wait until Christmas to get them.



They are much shorter at only a bit over a CM, but if they fit with little or no effort, they'll be worth having.  Will keep this thread posted about them.

Last edited on Sun Nov 10th, 2019 05:38 pm by Alex Rushing

Back To Top PMQuoteReply  

 Posted: Mon Nov 11th, 2019 04:34 am
  PMQuoteReply
18th Post
Pete Moulds
AFCA Member


Joined: Sat Feb 25th, 2006
Location: Bumi Serpong Damai, Jakarta, Indonesia
Status: 
Offline
Hi Alex

Thanks for the heads-up on these brushes for the 10" Singer/Diehl.
Sadly this ebay seller does not ship to Indonesia, so I guess I will have to order from China (it is quite a bit closer too) and be patient.
One disadvantage of living here and needing stuff from the US.

Each trip stateside, I usually raid the local ACE hardware and buy as many small imperial thread brass nuts and bolts I can find for early British fans. Otherwise I have to have them laboriously machined on a lathe one by one.


Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Mon Nov 11th, 2019 04:46 am
  PMQuoteReply
19th Post
Alex Rushing
AFCA Member


Joined: Thu Dec 14th, 2006
Location: Montgomery, Alabama USA
Status: 
Offline
Lets hope those brushes are the key to having a reliable supply!

As far as imperial(6-32, 8-32, 10-32, etc) brass hardware, the supplies have dried up around where I live. I rely on Amazon for most of that stuff now. O_o

Last edited on Mon Nov 11th, 2019 04:47 am by Alex Rushing

Back To Top PMQuoteReply  

 Posted: Thu Nov 14th, 2019 01:49 am
  PMQuoteReply
20th Post
Alex Rushing
AFCA Member


Joined: Thu Dec 14th, 2006
Location: Montgomery, Alabama USA
Status: 
Offline
Happy to report the 4mmX4mm brushes work with just a little filing work. The springs were perfectly tensioned as well!I replaced both my original brushes and the fan runs even better than before. A lot better. Will post an update video in a bit.   :clap:

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Thu Nov 14th, 2019 02:58 am
  PMQuoteReply
21st Post
Alex Rushing
AFCA Member


Joined: Thu Dec 14th, 2006
Location: Montgomery, Alabama USA
Status: 
Offline

Back To Top PMQuoteReply  

Current time is 05:57 pm  
AFCA Forums > Antique Fan Collectors Association > Pre-1950 (Antique) > Stationary 10" Singer information request, if possible. Top



Beige Theme By: Di @ UltraBB
UltraBB 1.17 Copyright © 2007-2008 Data 1 Systems
Page processed in 0.1828 seconds (10% database + 90% PHP). 31 queries executed.