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WTB: Unrestored 1905 GE Pancake Fan  Rate Topic 
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 Posted: Sat Feb 8th, 2020 07:31 pm
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Lance Young
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Looking for original unrestored with no mechanical issues.  Thanks.
Lance

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 Posted: Mon Feb 10th, 2020 12:19 pm
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Richard Littlepage
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I'm not exactly sure if this cake is a 05 or 07  











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 Posted: Mon Feb 10th, 2020 12:29 pm
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Kim Frank
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Pictured fan is second variant '06-'08.

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 Posted: Mon Feb 10th, 2020 01:42 pm
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Lance Young
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Thanks for sharing the pictures Richard.  I'll check but certain I already have that model.

Lance

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 Posted: Mon Feb 10th, 2020 03:30 pm
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Richard Littlepage
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Thanks 4 the info  cake whisperer πŸ‘πŸ» you da man 

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 Posted: Mon Feb 10th, 2020 03:31 pm
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Richard Littlepage
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πŸ‘πŸ»πŸ‘πŸ»

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 Posted: Tue Feb 11th, 2020 11:50 am
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Steven P Dempsey
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There was a late model one on aBay, think it was missing the switch, had a cage repair

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 Posted: Tue Feb 11th, 2020 11:54 am
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Steven P Dempsey
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does have a switch, just looks wrong, I an't no cake expert! What is that hole in base?





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Late Cake ebay.jpg

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 Posted: Tue Feb 11th, 2020 12:59 pm
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Lance Young
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Yeah, I saw that one on ebay.  The hole in base is for the stator cord that connects to switch at the bottom.  Thanks for updating me as you never know.

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 Posted: Tue Feb 11th, 2020 01:09 pm
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Steven P Dempsey
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Is that lile a 1907 or so model? No ribs at all. I like ribs!!

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 Posted: Tue Feb 11th, 2020 01:21 pm
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Lance Young
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I believe it is 1907 based on serial number.

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 Posted: Tue Feb 11th, 2020 04:12 pm
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Steven P Dempsey
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LOL -just ask Kim what color you want it in & he can pull it from the museum shelf!

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 Posted: Mon Feb 17th, 2020 01:11 pm
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Kim Frank
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Here is a 1905 swivel trunnion 12 inch Pancake from my collection. The visual cues for the 1905 model is a half ribbed base with a set screw and a thumb screw in the neck. Four wing blade with stamped brass hub and eight wire cage. Pierced rear ring although 25% of the 1905 fans listed in the survey have a wrapped rear ring cage. Five speeds, laminated rotor with holes, motor tag with no type or form letters and s/n range 205001-238000(examples are known to be outside of this range) This example was found at the American Pickers store in Nashville and is featured on season 19 episode 4. Thru really bad editing this fan, while on TV, has the rare kidney gear box attached.











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 Posted: Mon Feb 17th, 2020 02:20 pm
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Steven P Dempsey
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Can we ask what they were asking? (not what you paid)

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 Posted: Mon Feb 17th, 2020 05:31 pm
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Steve Stephens
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The fan at the top that Richard posted is a 1907 model with its unique struts.  The fan that Steven posted is a 1906 modle with the 90 degree bend at the outside of the struts.

Lance, what is it about the 1905 model that makes you want THAT year and not another similar year?  1904 is very close to 1905 but not the same in small details.

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 Posted: Mon Feb 17th, 2020 06:29 pm
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Brad Hughes
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Soooo??? 1905 Pancakes.  Did some come with a smooth base??  Half ribbed base??  Is serial # the primary indicator on what makes it an 05??

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 Posted: Mon Feb 17th, 2020 06:47 pm
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Steve Stephens
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Brad Hughes wrote: Soooo??? 1905 Pancakes.  Did some come with a smooth base??  Half ribbed base??  Is serial # the primary indicator on what makes it an 05??

I would think that all 1905 pancakes would have the same features on such a large production item from a huge company.   Half ribbed base on all of them.   1906 looks to have been the start of the smooth base plus other changes from 1905.

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 Posted: Mon Feb 17th, 2020 06:59 pm
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Brad Hughes
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Just curious as I have been advised that a smooth base 12" pancake that I have is an 05??  Based on serial # ??  I don't have access to the specific one here at work, but my curiosity is being piqued.  It might be this one, #241194, 12" trunnion w/ smooth base.  Brass struts.
Karolyn Baden may have it however.  I'll check serial # on what she has of mine.  It appears there seem to be lots of variants based on what I have read on these posts.

Master Kim??

Is it safe to assume that all smooth base 12" pancakes are no earlier than 06??  Did the 12" pancake production continue into 08??
Did GE move to BMY in 08 or 09 or was there a transition year where both models were produced.
Am I correct in that the 1st BMY had a centrifical switch and a squattier base??

An inquiring mind would like to know> :P

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 Posted: Mon Feb 17th, 2020 07:28 pm
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Kim Frank
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I use serial numbers as a guide, but I go more to the charactistics of a fan as to year of production. If I see a smooth base on a cake, I know it's at least 1906. I then look at the motor housing. If it's plain, then I know it's at least a 2nd variant 1906. I then look at the struts. If the earlier style brass or steel, then 1906. If the style where the cage is held in by a bevel head screw, then '07 or '08. Then I look at the serial number. 238xxx-277xxx is probably 1906, 277xxx-314500 is probably 1907, 314501-325xxx is 1908. There are always examples that don't fit in this criteria, so then you have to use common sense as to what it is.
The 1908 pancakes and BMY's ran side by side in the catalog. Both the first and second variants of BMY have the squat base with no pivot.

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 Posted: Mon Feb 17th, 2020 07:31 pm
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Brad Hughes
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Thank you sir!

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 Posted: Mon Feb 17th, 2020 07:31 pm
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Steve Stephens
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Brad, one cannot rely on the serial number to determine the "model" year on all fans.  Note below that I have an 1899 model with a 1901 model year serial number and a 1900 model with a 1904 serial number.  Not a case of switched motor tags since each tag has the correct "Form Letter" for the model year.   My 1899 model has a last patent date of 5/27/90 and both of these oddball fans has all features correct for the model year.

For the BMY my understanding is that there are three main variations:  1908-09 model year, 1910 model year, and 1911-12 model year (add 1913 for the 16" model).




Below, updated to 5-4-17; all pancakes in my collection
T=trunion S=stick mount
 
Year   size.. frame...Type..Form…Volts...Freq.....Ser. No….Spec…Last pat. date  Yr. got-inv.No.
 
1898   10”     S        UI      F3      115      60       19304       -       5/27/90   07-276   6-wing, nickeled blade

1898   12”     T        UI      E5      104      60       22323       -       5/27/90   12-352   6-wing, nickeled blade
 
1899   12”     T        UI      E7      104      60       33589       -       5/27/90   16-372   small open ring cage

1899   12”     T        UI      E7     104       60       35065       -       5/27/90    03-88    w/new ’98 cage but have original
 
1899   12”     T        UI      E7     115       60       37449       -       5/27/90    02-63   

1899   12”     S        UI      F4      104      60       39842       -       5/27/90   13-365  

1899   12”     S        UI      F       115       60       78119    3725    5/27/90    05-194   1901 model yr. ser. no.
  
1900   12”     S        UI      F9     104       60       46976    12721   5/27/90   07-246   thick struts
 
1900   12”     T        UI      E9     104       60       48120    12733   5/27/90    04-133  
 
1900   12”     S        UI      F9     104       60      181508       -       6/25/01    03-116 (1900 model w/1904 ser. no.)

1901   12”     T        AD      A    108/115   60       78841    17231   7/31/00   11-335   

1901   16”     S        AA      A    108/115   60       94335    17258   7/31/00   08-282  

1902   12”     S        AB      B    100/115   60      107623   30042   6/25/01   06-216   
 
1902   12”     T        AD      B    100/115   60      112293      -        6/25/01   01-30    
 
1903   12”     T        AD      C    100/115   60      148703      -        6/25/01   11-344 (early features)
 
1904   12”     T        AK      D    100/115   60      201873      -        6/25/01   07-241  

1905   12”     T         -        -     100/115  60       217657      -        6/25/01    01-41   
 

Some interesting details here:
 
1. Two 1900 stick mounts but look at the second one and how high the serial number is. This fan is typical in all ways of a 1900 model yet the tag has a last patent date of 6-25-1901. Why? Was this pancake assembled and sold much later than 1900? Was it rebuilt by GE and given a new motor tag? The serial number is in the 1904 range according to Don Eckerson's survey. All other of these motors serial numbers are within Don's survey range for the year given.
 
2. It looks like one could order an 1899 model for either 104 or 115 volts. Maybe other years like 1900 were also available in both voltages?
 
3. What is the "SPEC. NO. and what significance does it have? Some motor tags have SPEC stanmped into the tag with no number afterwards while other tags do not have the word SPEC on them.
 
4. Somewhere I heard that struts on the 1900 were beefed up from the somewhat thin ones used in 1899 but my 1900s all had the same struts as my 1899s. That is until I got this new 1900 from John. The struts are the same width as the other 1899 and 1900s I have but are considerable thicker material. .094" vs .066" thick. Note that the rear ring on the 1899 cage is the same thickness wire as the front ring while, in 1900, the rear ring wire was made much thicker than the front ring. 1900 struts do have a significant difference in that they have a bend to accomodate the larger thickness of the rear ring. An 1899 strut looks just like a 1900 but the bend in the 1899 strut will only allow it to fit an 1899 cage. And then there's my new 1900 with the thicker struts. Such fun to be able to compare a lot of machines at the same time.
 
5. Trunnion motor tags for 1899 are 6 inch in length, 7 inches in length for 1900, and 7-3/4" in length for 1902, 7-β…ž" for 1903d. I don't have a 1901 to check length but would guess it would be the longer 7-3/4". A little known detail. Now that Nick Loos is making pancake motor tags for 1899-1903 be sure to ask for the right length. The mounting screw holes will be located differently on the three years so you won't be able to use a wrong year tag on a fan from 1899-1902.
 
Steve


Last edited on Mon Feb 17th, 2020 07:34 pm by Steve Stephens

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 Posted: Mon Feb 17th, 2020 07:32 pm
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Kim Frank
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Steve Stephens wrote:

I would think that all 1905 pancakes would have the same features on such a large production item from a huge company.   Half ribbed base on all of them.   1906 looks to have been the start of the smooth base plus other changes from 1905.
Steve, don't you have pictures of the 1903 full ribbed base cake with the set screw and thumb screw in the neck and a 1905 tag on the motor?

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 Posted: Mon Feb 17th, 2020 07:41 pm
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Brad Hughes
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Thank you Steve.  I love the pancakes and have now acquired several variations, but I am still having a hard time wrapping my head around all the possibilities.
I sincerely appreciate both you and Kim sharing your priceless knowledge.  Kudo's to our AFCA and all the valued members who are so willing to share.

One of these days I hope to find a 98 variation to extend my time line.  I recently acquired the late Mr. Davis' 99.
The Emersons in my collection are just syrup for my pancakes :cool:

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 Posted: Mon Feb 17th, 2020 08:33 pm
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Steve Stephens
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Kim Frank wrote: Steve, don't you have pictures of the 1903 full ribbed base cake with the set screw and thumb screw in the neck and a 1905 tag on the motor?

Here it is but I would call it a 1905 pancake that was maybe using up some earlier parts such as the fully ribbed base.   Didn't one more like this show up somewhere?

Brad. you have seen my pancake blog?  A link to a great thread by Kim is here too.
https://earlyfans.blogspot.com/2011/02/ge-pancake-1894-1908.html













1905 style motor tag with serial number in teh 1905 range.



THREE screws in the base; original from the 1903 base in the center and the ones used in 1905 to either side of the center screw.









GE did not use a cardboard base until the 1905 models.


Last edited on Mon Feb 17th, 2020 08:36 pm by Steve Stephens

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 Posted: Mon Feb 17th, 2020 09:00 pm
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Brad Hughes
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Thanks again Steve!

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 Posted: Wed Feb 19th, 2020 09:27 pm
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Ted Kaczor
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Another confusing Pancake similar to Steve's 1905 NO 230058. 
Mine Pancake N0 241354 indicates 1906 production year. Partially ribbed base? and the motor type made in 1903/04? any suggestions other than GE used what they had avail. that fitted current production?

Forgive the dust growth, do to my negligence and not wanting to strain my wrist reaching up high for the 27Lbs of cast iron. 

Attached Image (viewed 103 times):

100_1744.JPG

Last edited on Wed Feb 19th, 2020 09:30 pm by Ted Kaczor

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 Posted: Wed Feb 19th, 2020 09:53 pm
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Steve Stephens
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Ted, you too having trouble lifting these heavy iron fans from way up high?
I was wondering if the brass band around your fan was original or did you change a steel band to brass?
Here is the 1905 model I saw on ebay:




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 Posted: Thu Feb 20th, 2020 09:36 pm
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Ted Kaczor
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Steve Stephens wrote: Ted, you too having trouble lifting these heavy iron fans from way up high?
I was wondering if the brass band around your fan was original or did you change a steel band to brass?
Here is the 1905 model I saw on ebay:




Steve, yeah old bones need lubrication. This is how I got it, there were remnants of a black paint, I just cleaned and polished it.1906?

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 Posted: Thu Feb 20th, 2020 09:41 pm
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Steve Stephens
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These are such oddballs I don't know exactly what they are.  The one I posted I only saw on ebay.  Maybe that black band had been painted and is brass underneath?   But do post=1903 stick pancakes have a brass band?   I have never had a stick cake after the back switch models.  Going by the serial number is not always accurate I have found.

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 Posted: Thu Feb 20th, 2020 09:45 pm
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Russ Huber
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Steve Stephens wrote: These are such oddballs 

Just stick with that.  :D

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