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AFCA Forums > Antique Fan Collectors Association > Pre-1950 (Antique) > "Allen" 42" 12 Wing Belt Drive Fan

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"Allen" 42" 12 Wing Belt Drive Fan  Rate Topic 
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 Posted: Fri May 22nd, 2020 09:24 pm
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Richard Daugird
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This is the big fan my new friend Robert was nice enough to bring down from N. Carolina. I wonder what size motor I should use, and what size motor Pulley? The blade pulley is 15".

Last edited on Fri May 22nd, 2020 09:40 pm by Richard Daugird

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 Posted: Fri May 22nd, 2020 09:32 pm
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Richard Daugird
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 Posted: Sat May 23rd, 2020 12:14 am
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Stan Adams
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That is a fine fan!There used to be an old converted warehouse over on Navigation directly across from Folgers Coffee called The Salvage Center Of Houston. When I was a kid, they had big belt drives hanging from the ceiling & large pedestal circulators. A fan just like this was mounted on top of the cashiers booth.

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 Posted: Sat May 23rd, 2020 02:26 am
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Mike Kearns
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1938 - 

1947 - 


1948 - 

  1965 -

Last edited on Sat May 23rd, 2020 02:27 am by Mike Kearns

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 Posted: Mon May 25th, 2020 09:41 pm
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David A Cherry
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depends on the pulley, and fan speed, I would think you would want to run it slow.. 1/3 horsepower at 1725 would be fine.

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 Posted: Fri May 29th, 2020 05:34 pm
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Richard Daugird
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I;m thinking I'll spend an extra $50 and get a motor/VFD package, so I can have variable speed.

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 Posted: Fri May 29th, 2020 05:34 pm
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Richard Daugird
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https://dealerselectric.com/Package-K318-and-L510-101-H1-U.asp

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 Posted: Fri May 29th, 2020 05:36 pm
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Richard Daugird
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https://dealerselectric.com/Package-BL3-AL-TF-56C-2-B-D5and-L510-201-H1-U.asp
This is 3600 RPM, but I could slow it down with the VFD.

Last edited on Fri May 29th, 2020 05:46 pm by Richard Daugird

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 Posted: Fri May 29th, 2020 05:56 pm
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David Allen
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Richard Daugird wrote: https://dealerselectric.com/Package-BL3-AL-TF-56C-2-B-D5and-L510-201-H1-U.asp
This is 3600 RPM, but I could slow it down with the VFD.

Nice fan!  It does have my name on it, too LOL!

As for your motor choice, VFD's can increase speed a whole lot, but not increase torque much at all; without damaging the motor. 

In other words, the 3600 RPM rated motor has less torque than the 1800 RPM rated motor. If you reduce the 3600 RPM motor down to half speed, it won't gain torque and won't do what the 1800 RPM motor was able to do at 1800 RPM.  

Going the other way (increasing speed) is generally more effective and less stressful on the motor. You'd be better with the 1800 RPM motor and use the VFD's capabilities to control it. It should be able to go up to 150% speed or so before you run out of voltage. 

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 Posted: Fri May 29th, 2020 06:18 pm
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David Allen
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At the risk of getting argued with by purists and theorists; I want to try to make this a little better layman's explanation.
The majority of the heat of the motor is generated by resistive heating in the winding and rotor bars. Current flows in those parts and heats them up.  So; more amps flowing leads to more heat generated. It's simple using Ohm's law to understand that.  The more current through the motor, the more heat it produces.

The more torque you are taking from the motor's shaft, the more amps it requires in order to maintain speed while supporting the torque. So it is a pretty direct relationship to torque on the shaft and amps into the motor. 

By extension of that, we can say that the more torque you put on the motor, the more heat it will generate because of the current flowing to support that load. 

With a VFD, you can slow a motor down and speed it up by changing the votlage and frequency. However, the relationship of torque to current to heating of the motor still holds true. 

If you take a motor which was good for 10 LbFt of torque at 3600 RPM, and slow it down to 1800 RPM, it is still only good for 10 LbFt torque - BUT now you have cut the speed and cooling fan air in half, so the motor is going to run much hotter and produce half the HP it would at full speed. Horsepower is made up of speed and torque. So you have cut speed in half and therefore horsepower is also halved.

If, on the other hand, you take a motor which could make 20 LbFt at 1800 RPM and you increase the frequency higher than 60 Hz, the motor can still make 20 LbFt of torque, but now it is doing it at a faster speed. There is a limit on how high of a speed you can go, with full torque. This depends on several factors, most importantly the maximum output voltage of the VFD. But you are able to run a motor faster than its original speed, get more horsepower, and have cooler operation because of the faster cooling fan in the motor. 

So in general terms - it's better to take a slower rated motor and speed it up with a VFD than it is to take a fast motor and slow it down. 

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 Posted: Fri May 29th, 2020 06:40 pm
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Richard Daugird
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That makes sense. This package, is 1/2 H.P. and 1425 R.P.M. according to the label on the motor, but no torque specs. Is that the way I should go? Also, what size motor pulley would you reccommend, considering the blade pulley is 15"?

https://dealerselectric.com/Package-K318-and-L510-101-H1-U.asp

Last edited on Fri May 29th, 2020 06:40 pm by Richard Daugird

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 Posted: Sat May 30th, 2020 02:42 pm
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David Allen
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Richard Daugird wrote: That makes sense. This package, is 1/2 H.P. and 1425 R.P.M. according to the label on the motor, but no torque specs. Is that the way I should go? Also, what size motor pulley would you reccommend, considering the blade pulley is 15"?

https://dealerselectric.com/Package-K318-and-L510-101-H1-U.asp

That's a tough question! I would say look to the fan's application manual but something like this may not have one you can find. I would go with an adjustable pulley, intended for AHU blowers, so you can dial in the ratio as needed.

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