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 Posted: Wed Oct 6th, 2010 03:25 am
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Russ Huber
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In 1919 what company introduced a fan with two sets of field windings capable of operating on AC or DC with a simple flip of a lever? The fan was sold in different cycles. :wondering: Now don't be bashful about being wrong...so what if you are. :up:

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 Posted: Wed Oct 6th, 2010 03:48 am
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Steve Cunningham
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R&M 2800. Switch was labeled AC or DC.

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 Posted: Wed Oct 6th, 2010 04:23 am
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Russ Huber
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Steve Cunningham wrote:
R&M 2800. Switch was labeled AC or DC.

Nope, but thanks for being brave Steve. Bravery get better with age. Steve would know. :D

Psssst...R&M introduced and 8" universal model I think in 21? A clue.........the mystery fan is NOT and R&M. :up:

I am going to have to dig the book up with the fan when the time comes. If I remember reading it right the fan had a separate switch to flip it AC or DC with speed control?

Fact Jack....The fan was offered in voltages from 12 up to 220 and had two seperate levers in the base. One for circuit choice, the other for ............3 speeds! :clap:

Last edited on Wed Oct 6th, 2010 04:38 am by Russ Huber

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 Posted: Wed Oct 6th, 2010 04:39 am
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Steve Stephens
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Russ Huber wrote:
Steve would know.

THAT Steve didn't know and THIS Steve isn't thinking of an answer. Any other Steves out there with tons of knowledge?

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 Posted: Wed Oct 6th, 2010 05:11 am
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Russ Huber
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Steve Stephens wrote:
Russ Huber wrote:
Steve would know.

THAT Steve didn't know and THIS Steve isn't thinking of an answer. Any other Steves out there with tons of knowledge?


Are you giving up Steveo...curiousity killing the cat? :wondering:

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 Posted: Wed Oct 6th, 2010 05:12 am
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Nicholas Denney
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Menominee?

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 Posted: Wed Oct 6th, 2010 05:13 am
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Russ Huber
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Nicholas Denney wrote:
Menominee?

Nope. :down:

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 Posted: Wed Oct 6th, 2010 05:15 am
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Russ Huber
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White Cross......Lindstrom of Chicago. :up:

http://books.google.com/books?id=maYvAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA1142&lpg=PA1142&dq=Lindstrom+fan+1919&source=bl&ots=l2qb3FjRU-&sig=FqZNlEm7HQp81IJprSqRc-OOTus&hl=en&ei=qPerTKXgC9OlngeJqd3hDA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CB4Q6AEwAw#v=onepage&q&f=false

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 Posted: Wed Oct 6th, 2010 05:18 am
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Nicholas Denney
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How did I know it was going to be some obscure, small-time company? I just knew.... :wondering:

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 Posted: Wed Oct 6th, 2010 07:58 pm
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Terry Fisher
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Russ.......

Very interesting information.  I will check my White Cross for that lever.

Thanks for the post.

Attached Image (viewed 698 times):

White Cross 1919 Elec. World.jpg

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 Posted: Wed Oct 6th, 2010 08:43 pm
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Michael Rathberger
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Yeah, I own one of these as well, will have to check. It must be hidden as I have run it on the switch and it's only a speed control.

MR

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 Posted: Thu Oct 7th, 2010 02:01 am
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Terry Fisher
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OK Russ......you have us going again.  Look at the pictures. There is no AC/DC Lever as such.....................

I had imagined a lever to flip one way for AC and the other way for DC.

Attached Image (viewed 670 times):

White Cross Full View.jpg

Last edited on Thu Oct 7th, 2010 02:12 am by Terry Fisher

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 Posted: Thu Oct 7th, 2010 02:02 am
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Terry Fisher
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Notice there are 7 switch contacts.................

Attached Image (viewed 660 times):

White Cross Switch Only.jpg

Last edited on Thu Oct 7th, 2010 02:11 am by Terry Fisher

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 Posted: Thu Oct 7th, 2010 02:09 am
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Terry Fisher
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Help me figure this out. 

See the machine screw in the switch cover.  It permits the switch lever to slide on one set contacts only.  The contact side depends on which side of the screw the speed control lever is positioned.    Also notice the one contact which has a black area by it and appears to have material burned off the edge.  So what do you think of this? 

Also, how does one determine which side (set of contacts) is AC and which side is DC
?

Attached Image (viewed 674 times):

White Cross Switch&Covor Bottom View.jpg

Last edited on Thu Oct 7th, 2010 02:15 am by Terry Fisher

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 Posted: Thu Oct 7th, 2010 02:49 am
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Russ Huber
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Terry, this is good. Logic would say if the center terminal is the off position, the three positions left or right are AC or DC windings? By removing the switch cover you can adjust the lever travel to one or the other. You then replace the switch cover to control the lever travel in the AC or DC position?

Hey if it runs decent on AC now...I bet it is in the AC set of contacts? :wondering: Wonder how the switch is wired to the stator? :wondering:

Last edited on Thu Oct 7th, 2010 06:49 am by Russ Huber

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 Posted: Thu Oct 7th, 2010 02:54 pm
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Terry Fisher
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Russ......

I believe you are 100% correct.

Was talking to Mr. McComas last night.  He said the burned contact dot was probably due to the switch lever not making solid contact. Arcing between the contact and lever caused this to happen.

Tonight I will remove the switch and see what is on the other side.  McComas believes this switch might have a nichrome winding for the DC operation and another winding using regular wire for the AC operation. That sure would be a neat switch set-up.

  

Attached Image (viewed 621 times):

AA-Electric_plug.gif

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 Posted: Thu Oct 7th, 2010 07:29 pm
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Russ Huber
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Psssssst...I bet the switch is nichrome only.

Double pssst......I bet the fan is wired like Bernie's Jandus 02 motor patent. :up: The stator must be laminations so the AC would be induction repulsion and the DC would be wired like....Bernie wired it? :clap: I don't know Jack about the juice...I just feel it in my bones. :D

http://www.google.com/patents/about?id=RYleAAAAEBAJ&dq=728039+Bernard

Last edited on Thu Oct 7th, 2010 07:29 pm by Russ Huber

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 Posted: Fri Oct 8th, 2010 01:06 am
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Dale Keever
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Very interesting, didn't know anyone ever did that. Does anyone know if the White Cross was produced at the same time as the Breeze by Lindstrom Smith Co.? The Breezer's I have seen use a brush contact switch to vary the speed and only operate on AC.  It would appear that the Breezer name came after the White Cross or was the Breezer just the less expensive fan?   

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 Posted: Fri Oct 8th, 2010 01:20 am
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Russ Huber
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Breeze and White Cross are just trademark names used by Lindstrom pretty sure. I can dig you up a bunch of colored advertisements later.

Wonder where Loren is? :wondering: Do you think he got sick of us fan dorks once and for all? :wondering:

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 Posted: Fri Oct 8th, 2010 04:32 am
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Russ Huber
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http://books.google.com/books?id=ctsDAAAAMBAJ&pg=RA2-PT1&dq=Breezer+fan&hl=en&ei=RI-uTNC-LoOinQfamMTkBA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CDEQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=Breezer%20fan&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=qUFOAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA703&dq=Breezer+fan&hl=en&ei=RI-uTNC-LoOinQfamMTkBA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CDUQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=Breezer%20fan&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=tt8DAAAAMBAJ&pg=RA2-PT1&dq=Breezer+fan&hl=en&ei=RI-uTNC-LoOinQfamMTkBA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CDkQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=Breezer%20fan&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=ld8DAAAAMBAJ&pg=RA1-PA116-IA4&dq=Breezer+fan&hl=en&ei=RI-uTNC-LoOinQfamMTkBA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5&ved=0CEEQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=Breezer%20fan&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=36svAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA296&dq=Breezer+fan&hl=en&ei=RI-uTNC-LoOinQfamMTkBA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=6&ved=0CEUQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=Breezer%20fan&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=4UBOAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA310&dq=Breezer+fan&hl=en&ei=RI-uTNC-LoOinQfamMTkBA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=9&ved=0CE8Q6AEwCA#v=onepage&q=Breezer%20fan&f=false

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 Posted: Fri Oct 8th, 2010 12:46 pm
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Loren Haroldson
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White Cross was the name of appliances put out by LS.  White Cross was a phrase that signified purity and cleanliness during World War one.  Some think LS chose this name to sort of buffer the fact that they sold sex toys under the White Cross name.

Russ, nice find.. I had run across a reference to LS putting out the first universal motor and also HB and also Electric Machinery and also Lincoln electric.   While this isn't what we consider a universal motor, one can see where they got the idea to claim so...

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 Posted: Fri Oct 8th, 2010 02:47 pm
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Dale Keever
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Now Loren, are you saying those White Cross vibrators were sex toys?  Russ thanks for finding the Breezer ads, it does appear at one point the Breezer fan was the less expensive fan.  However, I have never seen the Chicago No. 64, anyone have Chicago badge?  Terry's White Cross must be very early, unless the ads for a universal motor are all like his.  Below is a LS fan, but I had no clue when I got it because there was no tag or badge.  Notice the brush caps are hidden and it has grease caps as compared to the later version. 

Attached Image (viewed 524 times):

breezer 001.jpg

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 Posted: Fri Oct 8th, 2010 02:47 pm
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Dale Keever
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The later Breezer.

Attached Image (viewed 500 times):

breezer 004.jpg

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 Posted: Fri Oct 8th, 2010 03:14 pm
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Russ Huber
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Actually, if Terry's fan is the same fan in the first book link I posted it appears to be introduced in June of 19. That first fan you posted Dale is in one of the book links posted of.......15.

The the 1890s took off with some well constructed table fans. It really looks fairly strong Lundell was the man with the plan introducing the wick oiler with IC. Lundell was a sharp cookie. Westinghouse takes off with their dual speed Tesla in 96. J.P. Williams(Paragon) gets a motor patent from Wallace Freeman and struggles to perfect it in Lancaster. Williams wins over the Chicago Edison Co.(Samuel Insull)as an agent to help market his fans in 97. Paragon becomes a hit. Chuck Eck gets away from cost cutter Roth and builds bullet proof breeze makers...etc.

It seems like around mid teens fans have been on the market for a while and now it is time to make some fans the average Joe can have for his very own. Funny thing, they are still built better than the junk they make now for most part.

Nice to see you post Loren. Thanks to your contribution of the connection of Wallace Freeman/J.P. Williams I was able to research to death my fave....Paragon Fan & Motor Company :up:

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 Posted: Fri Oct 8th, 2010 11:09 pm
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Michael Rathberger
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My WC has the same screw in the same spot asTerry's which stops the switch from progressing any further to the left. The tag also has no cycles listed, just voltage.

MR

 

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 Posted: Sat Oct 9th, 2010 02:22 pm
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Loren Haroldson
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In regards to Chicago.  After LS sold out to National Enamel and Stamping in the 20's, by the 30's their fans were duplicates of the Handybreeze fans put out by Chicago Electric.  I don't know what the fans of the 20's looked like after the sale.

I think they were actually pretty ornate and decent fans...

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 Posted: Sun Oct 10th, 2010 01:59 am
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Terry Fisher
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Russ.............

You are correct about the wire used in the switch..........

Attached Image (viewed 416 times):

White Cross AC-DC Switch Winding.jpg

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 Posted: Sun Oct 10th, 2010 02:04 am
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Terry Fisher
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Middle dot is Off.

I ran the fan on AC and DC.  As usual, it runs much smoother on DC.  Also it runs faster on DC. 

You are correct again.....A notch in the switch lever (see picture) was allowing the metal to arc. I eliminated the notch and now there is no arcing. 

Attached Image (viewed 436 times):

White Cross AC - Off - DC.jpg

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 Posted: Sun Oct 10th, 2010 02:23 am
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Russ Huber
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Thank you for taking the time to share Terry. Not sure if you understand the wiring, but McComas,Fanum,Voigt,Heidenfeldt etc. would. If I had this fan(which I don't), I would have to know just how Lindstrom wired it to the stator poles? :wondering: It would drive me nuts until I figured it out one way or another. :D This is fun! Like I said...if someone knew how the switch was wired to the stator, they could nail how Lindstrom made it happen. Your time and effort...your call Terry. :D One way or another...thank you for sharing this interesting fan. :clap:

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 Posted: Sun Oct 10th, 2010 05:33 am
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Russ Huber
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Pssssst... Terry, I'm deep in thought about your fan. :D

Attached Image (viewed 377 times):

canada2006 257.jpg

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 Posted: Sun Oct 10th, 2010 02:10 pm
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Loren Haroldson
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Russ, Are you still president of the David Carridine fan club?

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 Posted: Sun Oct 10th, 2010 03:46 pm
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Russ Huber
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Loren Haroldson wrote:
Russ, Are you still president of the David Carridine fan club?

Hey Haroldson...Just try to fetch the pebble from my hand...I dare ya...I double dare ya.

Hey look at it this way Loren...when I am out deep in the woods like that...the world is a safer place. :tumbs

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 Posted: Sun Oct 10th, 2010 04:03 pm
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John McComas
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Loren Haroldson wrote: Russ, Are you still president of the David Carridine fan club?
:imao:imao:imao:imao

Yes, young grasshopper, try to pluck the oscillator wheel from my hand...

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