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menominee signal electric co fan  Rate Topic 
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 Posted: Sun Aug 27th, 2017 06:53 pm
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Robin Cooper
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 Posted: Sun Aug 27th, 2017 09:03 pm
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Jim Humphrey
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Robin, that's a very nice fan, commonly called a snowflake because of the appearance of the rear of the casting.  Not a common fan, and looks like it's in excellent condition.   Did you have to do much to it after you got it?

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 Posted: Sun Aug 27th, 2017 09:48 pm
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Russ Huber
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Robin Cooper wrote: I am restoring an old Menominee fan [ser # 8808C] that used to belong to Henry Tideman [my wife is his granddaughter] and used to be kept at their cottage in Menominee.


Robin's wife is Harold Tideman's(Henry Tideman's son) daughter.  His claim this fan motor came from Henry's cottage was shared with me in past.


I have never found a 6 wing Menominee RESIDENCE fan motor in the wild.  Do I see a 2 or 3 wire cord between the fan motor and the base?  


Did you rewire the fan yourself, Robin? :wondering:    

Last edited on Sun Aug 27th, 2017 09:54 pm by Russ Huber

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 Posted: Sun Aug 27th, 2017 10:22 pm
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Robin Cooper
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yes i did rewire it as the old wiring was IMO unsafe, so when i did it i included a ground but still have the old wire and the ancient plug.

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 Posted: Mon Aug 28th, 2017 01:32 am
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Russ Huber
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Robin,  is the cord leading from the motor to the base 2 or 3 wire strand?  Did you recognize the motor stator to have 6, or 4 sets of windings?



The top image shows a 6 pole stator (6 windings).  The bottom image shows a 4 pole stator (4 windings).

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photo from Romain Tutin.jpg

Last edited on Mon Aug 28th, 2017 01:34 am by Russ Huber

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 Posted: Mon Aug 28th, 2017 02:08 am
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Robin Cooper
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it is three cord because that was all that i had, the ground is not connected as not needed, it is grounded through the connection to the base. it has four windings.

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 Posted: Mon Aug 28th, 2017 02:25 am
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Russ Huber
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Robin Cooper wrote:
it is three cord because that was all that i had, the ground is not connected as not needed, it is grounded through the connection to the base. it has four windings.
Tell your wife that her grandfather cheated the fan motor competition by OFFERING a 6 wing 12" RESIDENCE fan motor to the public NOT using the SLOWER more QUIET(1150 RPM) 6 pole stator as much of his competition offered.

Your fan has the impressive 6 wing blade driven by a 4 SHADED pole INDUCTION fan motor spinning at (1550+ RPM) top speed. 

Check out how "OLD MAN" Tideman advertised a 6 wing 12" RESIDENCE fan motor to 14-15 electrical trade and hung in there with the corporate big boys.  

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menominee15.png

Last edited on Mon Aug 28th, 2017 02:25 am by Russ Huber

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 Posted: Mon Aug 28th, 2017 01:43 pm
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Robin Cooper
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good for him, he was always a smart old bird, met him quite a few times when he was alive,

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 Posted: Tue Aug 29th, 2017 03:13 am
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Russ Huber
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Robin Cooper wrote:
good for him, he was always a smart old bird, met him quite a few times when he was alive,
Just how old are you? :wondering:

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Last edited on Tue Aug 29th, 2017 03:14 am by Russ Huber

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 Posted: Tue Aug 29th, 2017 03:17 am
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Russ Huber
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Son Bill drove into a wood pulp pile in 27.  :wondering:

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 Posted: Tue Aug 29th, 2017 02:20 pm
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Robin Cooper
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78

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 Posted: Tue Aug 29th, 2017 02:21 pm
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Robin Cooper
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so this was Harold's brother?

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 Posted: Tue Aug 29th, 2017 08:03 pm
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Russ Huber
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Robin Cooper wrote: so this was Harold's brother?
Yes,  Henry left his consulting job in Chicago to fill the shoes of his deceased son William in 27 at Signal.


William's wife never forgave herself for pushing William to move back to Menominee from Canton, Ohio. She was the instigator of the move in the early 20s which got her closer to her parents again. It is in William Jr.(your wife's late cousin of Appleton, WI.) notes I have that she blamed herself for William's death being she forced him back to Menominee.


As you can see both William and his wife died tragically. He in 27, and she in Feb. of 43.

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Last edited on Tue Aug 29th, 2017 08:12 pm by Russ Huber

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 Posted: Tue Aug 29th, 2017 08:06 pm
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Russ Huber
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Robin Cooper wrote: 78
I misunderstood you, I thought you were stating you had contact with Henry Tideman.  You meant Harold.

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 Posted: Tue Aug 29th, 2017 08:43 pm
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Robin Cooper
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yes, and also her son Barton was killed at the Battle of the Bulge. many thanks for all these momentous

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 Posted: Wed Aug 30th, 2017 12:20 am
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Russ Huber
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Here are some examples of Henry's DC fan motors 19th century.  No Walmart back then, the average Joe back could not afford to buy a fan motor.  The electrical industry was new and Henry used electrical contractors east, central, and west coast to market his fan motors.  Vance Electric Co.(NY), Electrical Appliance Co.(Chicago) and ?(San Francisco). 



These fan motors span 1893-01

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Last edited on Wed Aug 30th, 2017 12:22 am by Russ Huber

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 Posted: Wed Aug 30th, 2017 12:31 am
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Russ Huber
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1900 Henry's CEO(Joe Flesheim) of the Menominee Electric & Mechanical Co. with the electrical firm facing receivership committed suicide.  Henry got lucky as the receiver wanted to relocate the plant in Chicago.  A Menominee prominent and business partner to the deceased CEO bailed the concern out and kept it in Menominee.


Menominee Electric & Mechanical Co.  became and incorporated The Menominee Electric Mfg. Co. by spring of 1900. 

This was Henry's first fan motor for 1902......the "Zephyr". :D 

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 Posted: Wed Aug 30th, 2017 12:33 am
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Russ Huber
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Thanks for popping in, Robin. :clap:

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 Posted: Wed Aug 30th, 2017 02:18 am
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Robin Cooper
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THANKS Russ, i have been forwarding all your interesting history to Harolds Grandchildren Is this particular fan valuable?

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 Posted: Wed Aug 30th, 2017 02:18 am
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Robin Cooper
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THANKS Russ, i have been forwarding all your interesting history to Harolds Grandchildren Is this particular fan valuable?

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 Posted: Wed Aug 30th, 2017 02:24 am
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Lucas Beshara
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I really like all the Michigan made cast iron Menominee fans Robin!
That one is especially nice

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 Posted: Wed Aug 30th, 2017 02:25 am
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Robin Cooper
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thanks

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 Posted: Wed Aug 30th, 2017 03:27 am
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Russ Huber
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Your fan won't stand up to the weight of the 19th century Menominee fan motors. But....your fan is interesting for sure.  Hopefully a grandchild will appreciate it in the future for the right reasons. Your wife's grandfather stood the test of time over many upsets and challenges from 1892-35.  Henry was one smart hardy German. :clap:

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 Posted: Wed Aug 30th, 2017 02:04 pm
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Robin Cooper
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his forebears came from prussian aristocracy in an area which is now part of poland, Gollub, the Chemnitz estate, supposedly they were land rich and money poor.

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 Posted: Wed Aug 30th, 2017 04:56 pm
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Russ Huber
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Robin Cooper wrote: they were land rich and money poor.
I have copy documentation here from your relative in California supporting the above I believe written by Henry.  Lotsa land and an empty wallet.

The Menominee concern was established and incorporated in 92. By 97 there was talk of moving it to Chicago stated in electrical trade. 1900 CEO Joseph Flesheim put a bullet in his head(business failing) and the concern is facing receivership and removal to Chicago(Eureka-telephone related).  Menominee prominent R. Jennings bails out concern from the receiver to keep business in Menominee.  Jennings takes CEO chair for 01 and it APPEARS Henry steps into his shoes 02?  1905 the business burns to the ground.  They temporarily reestablish in Marinette until new factory opens in 07.  Henry has strong connections with St. Louis "WESCO" electrical supply and central/southern market.  Henry gets lucky to buy from WESCO all the phone related manufacturing equipment from the failed Davis Electric Co. of east coast WESCO had just purchased to get the factory up and running in 07. 09 Henry introduces to electrical trade what appears to be Menominee's first fan motor since the 05 fire. This fan motor hits the market in ....10.  10-11-12-13 each season results in increased fan motor line. All along Henry sprouts new business adventures(Dudly, etc.)


Henry's biggest folly........the move to Cairo(arrogance).  Henry was offered a welcome and financial support to establish his business along with a new factory from Cairo prominents.  All this came down in 17.  Henry got big britches thinking he can establish closer to the larger part of his business in the south. He also was focusing on the higher concentration of minority cheap labor. Railway and rivers for product transport and receiving.  By 18 the Menominee concern was now incorporated in Cairo under The Tideman Electric Mfg. Co.  Henry stripped the Menominee concern of key machinery and a number of laborers leaving the new SIGNAL concern with peanuts when he left in 19.  Henry's ACE in the sleeve was remaining vested in Signal, and Chairman of the board.

In 20 Tideman Electric could only produce the one 9" fan out of the promised 9",12",and 16" fan motors due to lack of materials(WW1). 21 resulted in an economic crash. Son William bailed out of the Cairo concern moving to Canton,Ohio by late winter of 21. Most of the labor force that followed Henry could not hack it in Cairo and moved back to Menominee. Cairo has struggled for years with racial issues. Two major rivers meet at Cairo for sand bagging practice. By October of 21 Henry resigned the chair and left to Chicago and established as an engineering consultant in 22.  Henry must of lost the business and patent rights to the Cairo receiver.  Total backfire. :D   

Last edited on Wed Aug 30th, 2017 04:57 pm by Russ Huber

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 Posted: Wed Aug 30th, 2017 05:20 pm
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Robin Cooper
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curious, who in california? many thanks

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 Posted: Thu Aug 31st, 2017 01:40 am
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Russ Huber
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Robin Cooper wrote: curious, who in california? many thanks
Contact with her through her son in Jan. 2012.  I regret just missing William Jr. in Appleton by a year or two of his death.  William Jr. held much of the family history, and then some.

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 Posted: Thu Aug 31st, 2017 01:50 am
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Russ Huber
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Robin, if your wife would chose to share a copy of an image or two of Henry Tideman in the flesh I would appreciate that much.  My email can be gained by clicking on my name next to my avatar.  Thanks.

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Last edited on Thu Aug 31st, 2017 01:50 am by Russ Huber

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 Posted: Thu Aug 31st, 2017 02:03 am
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Robin Cooper
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of course, Sis she was called, susan aunt, a classy lady

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 Posted: Thu Aug 31st, 2017 02:06 am
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Russ Huber
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Robin Cooper wrote: a classy lady
You got that right. 

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 Posted: Thu Aug 31st, 2017 02:08 am
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Robin Cooper
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i am not sure she has any of Henry who was her great grandfather but she does have some of Harold, Henry's son.

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 Posted: Thu Aug 31st, 2017 02:08 am
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Robin Cooper
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i am not sure she has any of Henry who was her great grandfather but she does have some of Harold, Henry's son.

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 Posted: Thu Aug 31st, 2017 02:08 am
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Robin Cooper
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i am not sure she has any of Henry who was her great grandfather but she does have some of Harold, Henry's son.

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 Posted: Thu Aug 31st, 2017 02:08 am
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Robin Cooper
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i am not sure she has any of Henry who was her great grandfather but she does have some of Harold, Henry's son.

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 Posted: Thu Aug 31st, 2017 02:25 am
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Russ Huber
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Robin Cooper wrote:
i am not sure she has any of Henry who was her great grandfather but she does have some of Harold, Henry's son.
If your ANY of your family that is left has an image, or images of Henry Tideman I would greatly appreciate it.  Many of the prominent fan motor engineers have their image in electrical trade.  So far all I have of Henry is a caricature image. 

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Last edited on Thu Aug 31st, 2017 02:25 am by Russ Huber

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 Posted: Thu Aug 31st, 2017 02:29 am
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Russ Huber
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With little doubt William Jr. would have had an image of Henry.  William Jr. supplied Sis with the Tideman ephemera copies I possess. Any efforts you make would be most appreciated.

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 Posted: Thu Aug 31st, 2017 02:41 am
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Robin Cooper
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let me know if some photos arrived to your email address

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 Posted: Thu Aug 31st, 2017 02:54 am
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Russ Huber
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Robin Cooper wrote: let me know if some photos arrived to your email address
Yes.  There are some new images, much appreciated.  Harold had high standards. :D


Sis had strong connection with William Jr.  If you can pin down even one decent image of Henry I would be thrilled.  If I can be of more help regarding Menominee history and Henry's adventures you know where I am. :clap: :D

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Last edited on Thu Aug 31st, 2017 03:24 am by Russ Huber

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 Posted: Thu Aug 31st, 2017 03:41 am
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Russ Huber
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William and Harold Tideman are in the back row.  William is second to the left, Harold is far right.  The year is 22 at Signal.  Being William was plant superintendent, that is as good as stating he was in charge of engineering.  Signal's first fan motors APPEAR to have hit the market in .....23.  I would bet William designed them.  Harold was at that time a Chicago based sales rep. for Signal.  It appears William was following his fathers footsteps with hands on product design, Harold was business competent. 


 https://books.google.com/books?id=URdbAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA120&dq=Harold+Tideman+Signal+Electric&hl=en#v=onepage&q=Harold%20Tideman%20Signal%20Electric&f=false

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Last edited on Thu Aug 31st, 2017 03:54 am by Russ Huber

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