AFCA Forums > Antique Fan Collectors Association > Buy-Sell-Trade > WTB: 12" Westinghouse 6-wing stamped-steel BB/BC oscillator!!
AFCA Forums > Antique Fan Collectors Association > Buy-Sell-Trade > WTB: 12" Westinghouse 6-wing stamped-steel BB/BC oscillator!! | |
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Rob Duffy AFCA Member 
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Looking for an early 12" Westinghouse BB/BC model 164864 6 blade stamped steel oscillator with brass tag on the motor and brass banner badge on the cage. Must have three speeds. Would like it to have most of it's paint. Doesn't have to be polished and shiny, just in decent mechanical and physical shape with most of it's paint. Can be restored. Please post pictures here. Edit: A stump in good working order will also do as I have blade, cage and struts for one. Last edited on Wed Feb 20th, 2013 03:51 pm by Rob Duffy |
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Dave Dalsin Guest
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Rob - HERE IS A 4 WING THAT I HAVE AND WILL PART WITH. I can send more photos if your interested. $250.00 Attached Image (viewed 3467 times): |
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Rob Duffy AFCA Member
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Very very nice looking fan but I really am after a 6-wing. I do not have a single 6-wing fan in my collection. |
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Rob Duffy AFCA Member
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Would also buy a 16" if anyone has one available. |
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Dennis Lebow AFCA Member
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Rob sent you a email |
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Scott Mackay Guest
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I've got one. If you're still looking for one, I can post some pics after I get off work. -Scott |
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Rob Duffy AFCA Member
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Scott Mackay wrote: I've got one. If you're still looking for one, I can post some pics after I get off work. -ScottPlease do. |
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Scott Mackay Guest
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The fan is just as I found it with nice original felt. It looks as though the power cord has been replaced, and the head wire wrapped with electrical tape (doesn't look too bad). Seems to run and oscilate fine. Just gave it a cursory cleaning, and a light polish to the brass. Don't really know what the market is... $225 plus shipping? Attached Image (viewed 3250 times): Last edited on Wed Jul 28th, 2010 05:25 am by |
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Scott Mackay Guest
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another pic Attached Image (viewed 3237 times): |
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Scott Mackay Guest
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another view Attached Image (viewed 3246 times): |
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Scott Mackay Guest
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a final pic Attached Image (viewed 3136 times): |
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Rob Duffy AFCA Member
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Could you get a picture where the headwire enters the motor? |
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Scott Mackay Guest
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Here's a pic of the headwire. Attached Image (viewed 3118 times): |
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Rob Duffy AFCA Member
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Scott Mackay wrote: Here's a pic of the headwire.Ahh so it does have the cap that comes off.  |
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Bill Voigt Guest 
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Actually the "G" suffix motors had steel cages with small center emblems, but they look cool with earlier brass cages [ used thru about "D" suffix models]. The "G" and "I" motors are the 3 wire no centrifugal switch motors. |
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Rob Duffy AFCA Member
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Bill Voigt wrote: Actually the "G" suffix motors had steel cages with small center emblems,Are you positive G models didn't come with brass cages? |
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Bill Voigt Guest
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Yes |
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Fred Berry Guest 
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I agree, it looks far better with the older brass cage. The headwire will be super easy to replace, as this is the type that was factory-made to be replaced with the rear cover. I would snap this one up if I were you! |
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Rob Duffy AFCA Member
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On a side-note, I do prefer a brass badge instead of the nickel one. |
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Nicholas Denney Guest 
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TAKE IT OR LEAVE IT!  |
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Rob Duffy AFCA Member
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Nicholas Denney wrote: TAKE IT OR LEAVE IT!Quite a few people have contacted me about them. I am just waiting for pictures of the others to see which one I like best. |
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Bill Voigt Guest
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BTW - the motor tag is for a 4 blade westy - Here are #s I have seen "in the wild" 4 blade - 164848 (with various suffix letters) 6 blade - 164864 (with various suffix letters) Here are #s I have seen "in the wild" 164848 -- 4 blade Westy osc 12 in - 100-110 V 164849 111-120 V 164848B 164848C 164848G - 4 blade Westy osc 12 in 164848I 164848K 6 blade - 164864 -- 6 blade Westy osc 12 in - 100-110 V 164864A 164864B 164864D 164864G - 6 blade Westy osc 12 in 164864I So several possibilities: 1) Motor tag was lost and a similar tag substituted in the distant past and the motor is really correct for this blade & cage - in this case the motor would be 2 wire & would have a centrifugal switch (Scott, does it? ) 2) Motor is a later 6 pole motor ( 164864G, I, etc. OR 315745A) and the tag was substituted. 3) Motor and base are indeed a 164848G, in which case burnout is imminent - (see attached) Attached Image (viewed 3044 times): |
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Bill Voigt Guest
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And - Attached Image (viewed 2917 times): |
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Scott Mackay Guest
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The motor has a rattling sound on start-up (centrifugal start ?) but it appears to have three head wires, could both exist in the same motor? The fan has been run for some time, so this becomes even more interesting. Thanks, for the info Bill. Last edited on Mon Aug 2nd, 2010 02:40 am by |
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Rob Duffy AFCA Member
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Bump. |
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Peter Garcia Guest 
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still none, wow I will send your pics rob of the fan I have...sorry for the delay bud. |
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Rob Duffy AFCA Member
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Peter Garcia wrote: still none, wow I will send your pics rob of the fan I have...sorry for the delay bud.Ok. Let me know when you sent it. |
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Rob Duffy AFCA Member
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Bump. |
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Rob Duffy AFCA Member
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Bump. |
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John Hilliard Guest 
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Rob, I have a 16" 6-wing westy, stamped steel fan I will sell. It needs a head wire, but has the easy access cover plate on the motor housing for replacement. The fan does run, though noisey. It needs some work, but should clean up fine. Let me know if you are interested. John |
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Rob Duffy AFCA Member
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John Hilliard wrote: Rob,Does it have the brass badge? |
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John Hilliard Guest
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Rob, No, I think it has an aluminum badge. John |
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Steve Stephens Guest 
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I think, from talking to Rob, that he is looking for a 12" Westy stamped steel 6 blade oscillator with the proper 6 pole motor and brass motor tag and brass cage banner name. Westinghouse changed to using a zinc? motor and cage badge in the later teens only to return to brass tags a few years later. Rob isn't looking for the zinc badge one or a four blade model that has had a 6 wing blade installed. |
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Rob Duffy AFCA Member
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Steve Stephens wrote: I think, from talking to Rob, that he is looking for a 12" Westy stamped steel 6 blade oscillator with the proper 6 pole motor and brass motor tag and brass cage banner name. Westinghouse changed to using a zinc? motor and cage badge in the later teens only to return to brass tags a few years later. Rob isn't looking for the zinc badge one or a four blade model that has had a 6 wing blade installed.I would be willing to take a 16" as well but I really want one with a brass badge. |
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Scott Mackay Guest
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Replaced the head wire, and sold it on E-bay for $338. It was a two wire headwire. |
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Rob Duffy AFCA Member
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Scott Mackay wrote: Replaced the head wire, and sold it on E-bay for $338. It was a two wire headwire.Ok?  |
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Scott Mackay Guest
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Just saying the fan is no longer available. |
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Rob Duffy AFCA Member
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Anyone?? |
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Nicholas Denney Guest
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In two months, I guess not. |
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Peter Garcia Guest
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hey Rob the fan pic I showed you, how about $80.00 for it plus shipping? |
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Rob Duffy AFCA Member
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Peter Garcia wrote: hey Rob the fan pic I showed you, how about $80.00 for it plus shipping?I will get back to you on that. |
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Peter Garcia Guest
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Rob Duffy wrote: Peter Garcia wrote:hey Rob the fan pic I showed you, how about $80.00 for it plus shipping?I will get back to you on that. ok no hurry...all its doing is sitting there where I last took those pictures for you. |
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Rob Duffy AFCA Member
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Still looking... |
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Rob Duffy AFCA Member
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Bump. |
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Rob Duffy AFCA Member
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Why is this fan so hard to find?! |
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Rob Duffy AFCA Member
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Still looking. |
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Rob Duffy AFCA Member
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Still looking. |
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Rob Duffy AFCA Member
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Still looking. |
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Fred Berry Guest
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I have seen many of these on fleaBay...They're not that hard to come by. I purchased one fairly recently, oscillator, 6-wing BB/BC, centrifugal start, great headwire, good paint and it ran like a champ. I gave it to my sister, who wanted an old fan. I cleaned it up, checked all wiring, lubed it, polished the brass and she is happy as ever with it. |
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John Hilliard Guest
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Rob, I recently found a nice one. Needs clean up and lubrication. I will send you a PM. John |
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Rob Duffy AFCA Member
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PM sent. |
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Rob Duffy AFCA Member
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Still looking. |
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Russ Huber AFCA Member 
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Rob Duffy wrote:Still looking. Rob, this post kills me. What exactly are you looking for? Send me a PM if your still looking?Attached Image (viewed 1162 times): |
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Rob Duffy AFCA Member
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PM sent. |
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Russ Huber AFCA Member
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Rob is seeking a very nice(special) minty example of a 6 wing residential oscillating Westy. I can't help him.....can you? Last edited on Fri Apr 6th, 2012 09:22 am by Russ Huber |
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Rob Duffy AFCA Member
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Still looking. |
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Rob Duffy AFCA Member
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Are these really that hard to find? |
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Rob Duffy AFCA Member
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Still looking. |
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Rob Duffy AFCA Member
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Still looking. |
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Rob Duffy AFCA Member
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Still looking. |
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Rob Duffy AFCA Member
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Even if I can get just a stump in good shape, I could always add my own blade and cage. |
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Greg Miller AFCA Member 
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Holy  , Rob... Still nothin'? Wow... |
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Steve Stephens Guest
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I've been watching ebay for a fan suitable to Rob's wants and I have seen nothing at all since he started looking. He wants a 1912-13 12" Westy oscillator in good original condition. I think the oscillator model came out later than the stationary but Holy whatever, just not appearing on ebay. I don't even have one, just an early non-osc. |
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George Durbin AFCA Member 
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you talking about a double lever oscillator? |
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NM Whitney Jr. AFCA Member 
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I'm not all that picky... I might be interested in a 6 winger that's mostly complete and runs... Last edited on Thu Feb 21st, 2013 02:55 am by NM Whitney Jr. |
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Steve Stephens Guest
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Rob wants a 1912-13 stamped steel 12" Westy 6 blade oscillator. |
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Tim Marks Guest
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There was one on ebay but it wasn't in good enough original condition. |
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Steve Stephens Guest
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I see at least three 6 wing osc. on completed listings but they are all 1914 models, not the 1912 that Rob wants. I guess there was a 1912 6 wing oscillator? |
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Tim Marks Guest
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Steve- Could you explain the difference so I can keep my eyes open? T |
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Randy Rohr Guest 
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Rob, You might also consider an R&M of the same style. They have a couple of improvements I happen to like: Thicker steel case that alows easier removal of the stator, double worm gear reduction oscillator gearbox, ball bearing swivel to name a few. I have an R&M 12", DC, 6-wing, B&B version of this- the only fan of this style in my collection. RR Last edited on Thu Feb 21st, 2013 06:35 pm by Randy Rohr |
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Steve Stephens Guest
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The R&M may be a better made fan than the Westy but it's not as good looking I don't think and the motor is a higher speed 4 pole motor using a shallow pitched 6 wing high speed blade. An R&M 2404 below that sold on ebay 3/12 for $401 then again for some reason on 4/12 for $230 which was a good price for a nice original fan. I think the big flag cage stamped steel R&Ms probably are from 1916, the first year of the SS R&Ms. Attached Image (viewed 990 times): Last edited on Thu Feb 21st, 2013 07:05 pm by Steve Stephens |
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Steve Stephens Guest
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Tim Marks wrote:Steve- Tim, there are a few differences between the 1912-13 and 1914-15 models of the Westinghouse 12 and 16" fans. I am not sure those pair of two year breakdowns are exactly to the year but close enough. The first of the SS Westy has a power cord that enters the base at the very bottom while the next version c.1914-15 has the power cord entering the base about 1" up from the base flange. Another giveaway is the motor tag with a last patent date of 1914 on the 1914-15 model plus a small circle with a "W" in it on that later tag. I think, also, that the 1914-15 and later models have a small "port" where the head wire comes out of the motor so, if that needs to be changed, it should be an easier job than on the earlier Westy motor where you absolutely have to pull the stator. 1913 micro date motor tag below with last patent date of 1912 which is, presumably, similar to the 1911 micro date tag models in most ways. Still no suffix letter on the Style No. Attached Image (viewed 949 times): Last edited on Thu Feb 21st, 2013 07:24 pm by Steve Stephens |
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Steve Stephens Guest
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This is the 1914 tag that has a suffix letter as well as the "W" in a circle in the lower middle of the tag. Attached Image (viewed 981 times): |
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Steve Stephens Guest
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The earliest stamped steel Westy was their 1912 model and have motor tags with a 1911 micro date and last patent of 1910. I don't know what changes if any might have been made between these early models and the year or so later models but the very first have a narrow switch handle and a narrower cage, possibly some cages without the reverse bottom curve and the finish was a gunmetal grey. Oh, and the early SS Westys have bronze bearing carriers, not pot metal. Attached Image (viewed 978 times): Last edited on Thu Feb 21st, 2013 07:41 pm by Steve Stephens |
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Fred Berry Guest
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Steve, what was the latest that these came with internal starting switches, before they went over to the reaction-start style motors? Internally, these can-motor fan motors are quite a bit smaller than the earlier tank motors. Yet, mine, when turned on, accelerates the blade to full speed much faster than the equivalent 6-pole tank motor fan!! I guess that WH simply designed the motor to be more efficient along with being lighter? Did the 14' models still have the 2-speed switch with block to keep the 3rd position unobtainable? The manufacture of these is still not fully known as far as dates? Photo: Mine, NOS, got off fleaBay back in 2004... Attached Image (viewed 919 times): |
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Steve Stephens Guest
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Fred, The two speeds for the 6 wing fan did not last long, maybe not even into 1913 but definitely gone by 1914 models. I think the internal start switches probably went by the '14 models also but I'll have to check with Bill Voigt to be sure. Does your fan have the bronze bearing carriers? And how do you know that it was never used which would be indicated by "NEW old stock"? Or do you mean "nearly new, old stock"? My example is minty also and starts very quickly. The two speeds were only for the early 6 wing models. |
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Steve Stephens Guest
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Fred, update on my last post after talking to Bill Voigt: The start switch was continued on Westy stamped steel 12" and 16" models until 1919. Any Westy with a Style No. suffix letter BEFORE letter "G" will have an internal start switch and, if I understand him correctly, any Westy with the old style "banner" cage badge will also have the start switch and that will include all brass cage models as well as the first steel cages that used a square steel back ring. Attached Image (viewed 885 times): |
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Tom Dreesen AFCA Member 
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"And how do you know that it was never used which would be indicated by "NEW old stock"? Or do you mean "nearly new, old stock"? " Most people understand what NOS means. How do you know your "minty" example isn't an older restoration? Who'd have thunk that a stamped steel fan could generate nearly 10K posts?!?!? |
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Steve Stephens Guest
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Tom Dreesen wrote:"And how do you know that it was never used which would be indicated by "NEW old stock"? Or do you mean "nearly new, old stock"? " I'm not sure of the point you are trying to make Tom. I was just asking Fred how he knows his 6 wing Westy if "New" meaning, to me, that it has never been used. Doesn't NOS mean it's new, never used, but not necessarily in very good condition? I've seen NOS Model T fenders all rusty but they have never been on a car. And about my minty 6 wing fan I won't explain how I know it's not an old restoration but if you saw it you would agree with me that it isn't. One does not duplicate the original Westinghouse "dull black" paint, at least I have never seen it done nor have I seen original OLD lacquer on the brass blades duplicated so one can't tell. I have fans that are supposedly untouched (a 1901 GE from a club member for instance) but I can't tell if that's the case on that fan or not or if it's been repainted or not. But some fans you can just tell, at least I can. Last edited on Sat Feb 23rd, 2013 03:33 am by Steve Stephens |
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Tom Dreesen AFCA Member
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Steve Stephens wrote: Tom Dreesen wrote: While storage conditions can affect anything, NOS is self explanatory. NOS CAN be indicative of and USU indicates "as new", never been in the public's hands; "minty" can mean whatever you want it to mean. You can share your time machine the next time the AFCA jet visits the left coast. |
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Steve Stephens Guest
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Tom Dreesen wrote:NOS is self explanatory. Not necessarily so as one can find different definitions of NOS. Here's one that I would subscribe to that says "Never sold on the open market" (retail). http://antiques.about.com/od/resourcesforbeginners/qt/NewOldStock040411.htm What Qualifies as New Old Stock? Lots of things can qualify as new old stock, but what the term boils down to is stock produced many years ago that was never sold on the open market. It could have been stored in a retail shop or country store long out of business, warehoused in a factory boarded up decades ago, or housed in the garage of a distributor who's been retired since the 1960s. Last edited on Sat Feb 23rd, 2013 04:13 am by Steve Stephens |
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Tom Dreesen AFCA Member
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Steve Stephens wrote: Tom Dreesen wrote: Exactly. Pretty frickin self explanatory to any normal person. |
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Fred Berry Guest
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My seller told me that this was her grandmother's and that it was barely used, then stored in her mother's attic to keep it away from children. (Open cage, dangerous blades, etc.) So it WAS used, but not much and never out to the public. It is in outstanding condition, 100% factory Japaning, all there, none missing, polished blades, even the factory felt is perfect. I pulled the rear off the motor when I got it and it is beautiful and new-looking internally. Wicks were fairly new looking, oil still present, though I cleaned the oilers and added new oil, keeping the wicks. I checked on the inside of the rear bearing carrier; it is brass/bronze, so I am assuming the non-magnetic front is also brass. Style# 162634, no letter, just that number. |
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Rob Duffy AFCA Member
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bump. |
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