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AFCA Forums > Antique Fan Collectors Association > Buy-Sell-Trade > WTB Propeller blade 18 to 19" long, but Counterclockwise Rotation
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AFCA Forums > Antique Fan Collectors Association > Buy-Sell-Trade > WTB Propeller blade 18 to 19" long, but Counterclockwise Rotation | |||||
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| WTB Propeller blade 18 to 19" long, but Counterclockwise Rotation | Rate Topic |
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| Posted: Fri Sep 14th, 2012 12:42 am |
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1st Post |
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Chuck Abernathy AFCA Member 
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I have a neat deco CF that has a CC Rotation prop, meaning the air goes UP! Would prefer to have it blow DOWN, as it will cool me at my lathe! It has a three-speed Sergeant motor with McGill lever operated rotary switch, but unfortunately is not reversible. Attached Image (viewed 766 times):
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| Posted: Fri Sep 14th, 2012 12:59 am |
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2nd Post |
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Chuck Abernathy AFCA Member
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Oh, shaft is 1/2", so prefer 1/2" bore, but could ream or shim, if needed. I thought about a Westy Rotaire 16" but don't think there is enough hub to ream 1/2". The fan has a composite prop, so could use either composite or aluminum...no matter how many wings, either, just has to be counter-clockwise rotation. Thanks! Chuck
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| Posted: Fri Sep 14th, 2012 01:24 am |
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3rd Post |
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Jim Kovar AFCA Member 
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Chuck, if you'd be OK with your CCW blade running CW, your motor could be reversed by a simple two wire swap inside of the motor housing. That is, assuming it's a split phase motor.
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| Posted: Fri Sep 14th, 2012 05:10 am |
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4th Post |
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Chuck Abernathy AFCA Member
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Interestingly, it is not split phase, Jim. It appears to be a simple 4-shaded-pole design (with a squirrel cage rotor), and I can't figure how to change the shading to reverse it.
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| Posted: Fri Sep 14th, 2012 07:49 am |
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5th Post |
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John McComas AFCA Member 
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I don't guess you can flip the stator front to back??? That would reverse the rotation. The blade may not work well if reversed depending on its design. Blade might do OK if wings are essentially flat.
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| Posted: Fri Sep 14th, 2012 01:36 pm |
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6th Post |
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Randy Rohr Guest 
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Chuck, I have a wonderful 3-wing, cast aluminum prop blade that I'll give you if you can make it work. Let me measure it up tonite. I know it has a 1/2" bore. Not sure but think it is 18" dia. Don't know about rotation yet. Randy Rohr
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| Posted: Fri Sep 14th, 2012 04:29 pm |
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7th Post |
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Chuck Abernathy AFCA Member
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Thanks for the suggestions Jim and John and for checking the blade, Randy.
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| Posted: Fri Sep 14th, 2012 08:26 pm |
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8th Post |
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Chuck Abernathy AFCA Member
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Correction...this is a Reynolds Motor! OK, you motor gurus...there is a neutral and three other leads from the stator. Speed one (high) has resistance of 15.8 ohms, speed two R = 22.5 ohms, speed three (slow) R = 35.1 ohm. There is no speed coil per se, but from my work with ceiling fans, I hooked up the fan with hot wire to switch "L" and successive leads described above on switch terminals "1", "2", and "3", with the neutral wire on the other line wire... and get three very nicely spaced speeds, top being approximately 1400 (rated), and the slowest around 1/2 that. I assume that there are just more turns on the field coils to achieve the greater resistance and resulting lower amperage and speeds. Now...on careful inspection I found a 5th wire coming out of the stator, cut short and capped with a small wire nut and old crusted friction tape. I thought, "AHA! Perhaps I CAN get this motor to reverse!" I took the old tape and wire nut off, skinned back 1/4" and measured some resistances. ODD READINGS!! Between this short lead, to high speed lead R = 9.2 ohms; middle speed lead R= 2.5 ohms; low speed R = 10.6 ohms. I forgot to measure between the old neutral and this short lead, and the fan is back together and hanging as you saw in the pic...so it's a pain to go back and get this info! Wish now I had shot some pics of the motor, too...sigh! Just for grins I hooked the power between this short lead and wire with the highest of these readings (low speed from before)... with a bit of trepidation, I threw a switch to the power for a split second (low R = hi amps!!) the rotor showed it was going to turn clockwise, just like with original hook-up, so I just capped this lead off again and decided I just had to look for a CCW blade to get air on my head from this puppy! Now, do you think there might be some combination of wires that would make this puppy run CCW? I later thought it might have been interesting to hook the neutral to this short wire and hit it sor a second with power, but did not think of that when I had it apart last time. It's not all that difficult to take it down and get back into it, but it's not trivial, either...especially if I can find a CCW blade of some ilk!! I know this part of the thread should be in the Forum, but it started here, so I beg grace from the Moderators!
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| Posted: Sat Sep 15th, 2012 10:28 am |
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9th Post |
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Randy Rohr Guest
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Chuck, Before you go too far with that rotation idea, I'd like to report that that beautiful 3-wing, cast aluminum blade I have for you is CCW! It is 20" in dia. though. It's so nice, I'd clip the wings to 19" just to use it if I were you. You are right about the 3-speeds. Turns are added to the field to weaken it and cut the speed. The speed of these motors are load dependant are a result of this. Just a thought, that 'extra' wire could be for reversing as follows- Some split phase motors are reversed by virtue of two sets of shorting turns- one on either side of each pole. A wire wire completes the series circuit (a short) for one set of turns or the other for bi-directional starting. These circuits would be low resistance typically. Randy Rohr
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| Posted: Sat Sep 15th, 2012 03:36 pm |
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10th Post |
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Chuck Abernathy AFCA Member
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Thanks so much, Randy...I was NOT looking forward to taking this hummer back down and going back into it on the off chance that I could figure out how to reverse the rotation! Let me know what I owe you, and I can PayPal, or check...whatever you prefer. My address is in the Directory...if you need it, PM me. Blessings! Chuck
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| Posted: Mon Sep 17th, 2012 12:04 am |
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11th Post |
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Chuck Abernathy AFCA Member
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Yes, Randy, but there would have to be some sort of a cut-out device to keep from burning out the low R circuit, right?? I can find no heat-limit switches, and there's certainly nothing centrifugal in there! With that CCW blade we'll NEVER know!! Thanks again!! Chuck 
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| Posted: Tue Sep 18th, 2012 03:44 am |
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12th Post |
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Chuck Abernathy AFCA Member
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Back to needing a CCW blade...Randy's was actually CW rotation! Thanks for trying, Randy! John McComas, in light of my sept 14 post, do you think there is any electrical way to reverse this baby? The resistances do not make sense to me on that short lead, so I doubt if it is for that purpose...maybe was a fourth speed that was discarded for this application...wish I had measured Resistance across that short one and the common neutral..may have been either 9 (faster) or 42 (slower) ohms, or something!! If not, I'll probably just flip the stator coils. The blade I have in there will be less efficient, but still move plenty of air in reverse rotation! Thanks for the suggestion! I have done that in a common 14 pole CF, but why not on a 4 pole? Blessings! Chuck
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| Posted: Tue Sep 18th, 2012 07:04 am |
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13th Post |
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Russ Huber AFCA Member 
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I have a 20" Roto-Beam blade with 1/2" shaft hole. The blade would actually be slightly under 20". Or..... http://www.amazon.com/Lau-Blade-Fixed-Hub-Propeller/dp/B003A2EE1Q
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| Posted: Tue Sep 18th, 2012 11:03 am |
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14th Post |
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Chuck Abernathy AFCA Member
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Thanks, Russ! I looked over W. W. Grainger's stock of blades and found similar ones to that beast you show in Amazon.com...I'm pretty sure it won't fit. The Roto Beam just might work! However, if you'll look at the tapered cage on this hummer, there may be a clearance problem. It may not show in the picture, but the composite blade is actually in the shape of a very flat "V", open UP. The shaft is fairly long, though, so it might work. Might I put that blade on hold until later today? I have several Roto Beams up there; perhaps there's a 20" I could strip the blade off and try before I purchase yours. Blessings! Chuck
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| Posted: Tue Sep 18th, 2012 01:01 pm |
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15th Post |
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Chuck Abernathy AFCA Member
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OK, Russ, the largest Roto Beam I have is 16". I'll take your 20" blade and try to make it work. PM the price, please. Thanks! Chuck
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| Posted: Tue Sep 18th, 2012 06:42 pm |
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16th Post |
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Russ Huber AFCA Member
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Chuck, take a good look and let me know if your still in for the blade. The blade does span just a tad shy of 20". The hub hole has a depth of 2 5/8". It would be a shame to modify this blade in any manner. Not a lot of these floating around, Chuck. If you think you can plop it on your Reynolds and run it as is, let me know, and I will find a box for it.  Attached Image (viewed 536 times):
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| Posted: Tue Sep 18th, 2012 06:43 pm |
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17th Post |
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Russ Huber AFCA Member
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. Attached Image (viewed 559 times):
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| Posted: Tue Sep 18th, 2012 06:44 pm |
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18th Post |
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Russ Huber AFCA Member
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. Attached Image (viewed 592 times):
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| Posted: Wed Sep 19th, 2012 06:24 am |
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19th Post |
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Chuck Abernathy AFCA Member
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Russ...been tied up today, and just saw this reply. I will climb up there tomorrow and take a few measurements...truthfully, I doubt if this guy will clear that tapered cage assembly! I'll let you know, my friend! Thanks! Chuck I agree! That's a super blade...no way we'll modify it! I just love Roto Beam's...have several, including a 10" pedestal I picked up in Richmond! Attached Image (viewed 537 times):
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| Posted: Wed Sep 19th, 2012 06:25 am |
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20th Post |
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Chuck Abernathy AFCA Member
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The base Attached Image (viewed 521 times):
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| Posted: Wed Sep 19th, 2012 06:26 am |
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21st Post |
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Chuck Abernathy AFCA Member
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Motor/Blade/Cage Attached Image (viewed 529 times):
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| Posted: Wed Sep 19th, 2012 06:46 am |
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22nd Post |
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Russ Huber AFCA Member
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. Attached Image (viewed 556 times):
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| Posted: Wed Sep 19th, 2012 03:30 pm |
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23rd Post |
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Chuck Abernathy AFCA Member
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COOL!! Thanks, Russ. I think that R-B blade WILL work, Russ! We have 20.25" clear at the top of the motor (where the hub of the blade would start), and even more where the blades themselves would be located...optical "delusion" from the picture! I thought for sure the cage would be in the way! Please go ahead and pack up the blade and PM me what I owe ya'!! Blessings! Chuck
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| Posted: Wed Sep 19th, 2012 08:08 pm |
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24th Post |
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Russ Huber AFCA Member
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PM sent.
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| Posted: Thu Sep 20th, 2012 08:37 am |
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25th Post |
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Nicholas Denney Guest 
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Not to rain on the parade here, but that Roto-Beam blade will not do well trying to blow backwards. That is what the case would appear to be from the blade's design. We shall see. First time for everything.
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| Posted: Thu Sep 20th, 2012 06:20 pm |
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26th Post |
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Chuck Abernathy AFCA Member
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I would probably run on LOW speed, anyway, Nicholas, as it is only a foot or so above my head at the lathe! Can you imagine standing for an hour or so in FRONT of a 20" Roto-Beam on high???
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| Posted: Fri Sep 21st, 2012 03:26 am |
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27th Post |
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Jim Kovar AFCA Member
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Chuck Abernathy wrote: ...it is only a foot or so above my head at the lathe!Please, if someone asks, "who wants a beer," don't raise your hand!
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| Posted: Fri Sep 21st, 2012 03:35 am |
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28th Post |
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Chuck Abernathy AFCA Member
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I'll drink to that!
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| Posted: Tue Sep 25th, 2012 12:54 am |
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29th Post |
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Chuck Abernathy AFCA Member
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The Roto Beam Blade works perfectly, Russ! Here's a pic of the result. Attached Image (viewed 428 times):
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| Posted: Tue Sep 25th, 2012 01:07 am |
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30th Post |
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Russ Huber AFCA Member
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Just like downtown huh, Chuck? When you catch up with things, and get a little breathing room, maybe some wet dry sandpaper, and a run on the buffing wheels, and get a mirror shine on that five winged Weber.  On thing for sure...no more sweat rolling off the forehead when your running the lathe. After your done lathing, turn that Reynolds on high and it will blow all the shavings off and around the lathe to the corners of the room.
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| Posted: Tue Sep 25th, 2012 01:19 am |
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31st Post |
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Chuck Abernathy AFCA Member
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Doesn't have the same gale winds in reverse, but puts out plenty!!! I will polish 'er up when the dust settles around here, Russ...for now just happy (VERY HAPPY) to have the blade up there and have it work so well in the cage space available! Was tight, but just right! Looks like it grew there! Thanks again for your generosity, my friend! Attached Image (viewed 385 times):
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| Posted: Tue Sep 25th, 2012 01:26 am |
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32nd Post |
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Russ Huber AFCA Member
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That is nice, Chuck! And I am pleased to see your work bench looks just like mine! For every tool I pull out of the pile on my work bench ....3 tools fall on the floor.
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| Posted: Tue Sep 25th, 2012 01:33 am |
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33rd Post |
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Chuck Abernathy AFCA Member
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Hey...that's CLEAN! Should have seen it a couple of weeks ago, before I started "neatening" it up! Will be better still in a few weeks, Dan Wyatt!
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