AFCA Forums > Antique Fan Collectors Association > Buy-Sell-Trade > A NOTICE FOR... Elli Buk Auction Apr 25-28
AFCA Forums > Antique Fan Collectors Association > Buy-Sell-Trade > A NOTICE FOR... Elli Buk Auction Apr 25-28 | |
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Nicholas Denney Guest 
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"Elli Buk is legendary in the world of collectors who knew him as a self-made, prolific collector, curator and expert. His vast collection, assembled over a period of 40 years, reflects his passion for acquiring objects from our collective history of science and technology over the last two centuries. Encompassing over thirty specialty categories, the collection features a wide range of items from a rare Henry Fitz Telescope to the everyday hand cranked New England style sewing machine." http://www.groganco.com/BUKCOLLECTIONS.asp  examples: Lot 518: Early Perret motor  Lot 791: Early Riker motor  Last edited on Thu Apr 25th, 2013 01:49 am by Nicholas Denney |
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Ron Gibson Guest
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And those are of us who don't appreciate the heads up.....Thanks! |
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Steve Cunningham Administrator 
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I found he had a very early Diehl ceiling fan. We spoke about it. I soon realized I didn't want to spend the rest of my life negotiating with him over something he had no knowledge of. In the end my friend Chuck Abrrnathy not only got the part but fabricated the rest into a working fan. |
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Richard Larson AFCA Member 
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Thanks for the heads up. I barely have time to read much anymore and I had no idea this was coming. |
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Nicholas Denney Guest
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FYI, you can search the catalogue from this link by clicking the Catalogue button in the listing to see all the motors and other items available: http://www.groganco.com/upcoming.asp (There IS a Tesla and a handful of earlier cakes) Last edited on Thu Apr 25th, 2013 02:48 am by Nicholas Denney |
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Nicholas Denney Guest
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There is a buyer's premium of 20% and phone bids for the auction start at $500. This isn't anything like "E.B.B.S." |
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Nicholas Denney Guest
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My point is... like you already said; "everybody that knows already knows". The great number of people (haha) that will see my posting here will not be in a position to participate in the auction, and fewer still will bid. Maybe... one? |
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Steve Cunningham Administrator
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Good items. Reminds me of the 1994 Owl's Head Auction. If I were buying I'd go for the Manhattan #1, Manhattan #2, C&C with Wheeler's regulator, Perrett, and the dinner menu. It's hard to read all the signatures on the menu but two signers are Steinmetz and Elihu Thompson. Thanks for posting the auction. |
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George Durbin AFCA Member 
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I appreciate the info. Im not buying but it is good to know. members should know this. Why not? I refuse to pay buyers premiums. That is robbery as far as I am concerned... Last edited on Thu Apr 25th, 2013 03:34 am by George Durbin |
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Steve Stephens Guest 
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I saw the two c.1901-03 pancakes. Where or how would I find the Tesla photo and any other pancakes Nick? This guy has a fabulous collection and the videos of all his stuff makes me wonder if antiques shops from 50 plus years ago had many items like he does. |
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Mike Dombek Guest 
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That Tesla is missing the switch and obviously the cage too. Still a cool fan though. |
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Nicholas Denney Guest
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Steve Stephens wrote:I saw the two c.1901-03 pancakes. Where or how would I find the Tesla photo and any other pancakes Nick? If you searched "fan" with the steps I described, you should have seen them all. cakes http://www.groganco.com/asp/fullCatalogue.asp?salelot=137++++++565+&refno=+++14474 tesla http://www.groganco.com/asp/fullCatalogue.asp?salelot=137++++++439+&refno=+++14750 |
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Steve Stephens Guest
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I think I see the Tesla blade on the table and the cage behind looks like a Western Electric bipolar cage. The video of Buk's collection show two pancakes together and one is not in the photo the link with the three pancakes. |
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Rod Rogers Administrator 
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I also appreciate information like this. It is informative, interesting and relevant to our hobby. In fact...I find it right down fascinating! Even tho I don't plan on participating, it's nice to look at and possibly follow the results. ~Sparky~ |
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Troy Addy Guest 
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Their is something incorrect w/ almost all the fans. None are tested to run. Unless you have a deep parts cache it will cost you more to restore than to buy complete. |
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Steve Cunningham Administrator
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As with any auction, what you see is what you buy. There is rarely an allowance for "buyer's remorse" at an auction. I was at an auction. One of the fans was very rare. The auctioneer knew it had some extensive restorations done. His prelude to selling that fan was like watching a barefoot ballerina dance on an asphalt blacktop in a Texas heat wave. To those of us who knew what the fan was, and how much restoration it required, we were content with it's originality. |
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Troy Addy Guest
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Steve my favorite auctioneer ploy is when the item has reached the fair market price. The the bidding has stopped, and then the auctioneer starts the song and dance. "You people need to take another look at what we are bidding on here" or one of my all time favorites, "for those of you bidding this is an investment in your future" Then someone finally raises their hand and the bidding takes off and it sells for way more than its worth. |
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Michael Rathberger Guest 
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Anyone who knows how to collect knows about the auction. Might I suggest a teaching tab for this site for people that don't know how? It's not anyone's job here to help people find items that might interest them, let them do it for themselves. |
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Tom Dreesen AFCA Member 
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Michael Rathberger wrote: Anyone who knows how to collect knows about the auction. +1 |
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Ron Gibson Guest
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Who has claimed it is anyone's job? Most clubs freely share info.... |
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Troy Addy Guest
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+2 Tom, one of the Ebay Boy Scouts apparently was bored and contacted the auction to assist them. How I know is I asked a question about one of the fans and the answer was verbatim what has been posted on here as a observation. Last edited on Thu Apr 25th, 2013 06:12 pm by Troy Addy |
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Mike Dombek Guest
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Tom Dreesen wrote:Michael Rathberger wrote:Anyone who knows how to collect knows about the auction. +2 This auction could have been discussed and appreciated after the bidding was over. I'm sure the original poster had no intention of bidding or this thread would not have been started. Plain and simple these type of posts just drive the price up. |
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Tom Dreesen AFCA Member
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Ron Gibson wrote: Who has claimed it is anyone's job? Be sure to post, freely, what you plan to bid on. |
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Troy Addy Guest
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So Ron, if a dealer has a fan in a shop YOU want to buy you would share the location "freely" w/ the club members? Last edited on Thu Apr 25th, 2013 06:21 pm by Troy Addy |
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Mike Dombek Guest
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Nicholas Denney wrote:My point is... like you already said; "everybody that knows already knows". The great number of people (haha) that will see my posting here will not be in a position to participate in the auction, and fewer still will bid. Maybe... one? Is this a joke or are you on the auction house payroll? Lets see what the staghorn goes for this weekend when this thread has 600 TARGET AUDIENCE views. Last edited on Thu Apr 25th, 2013 06:33 pm by Mike Dombek |
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Troy Addy Guest
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Telling everyone here about the auction won't affect the price? Assisting someone on escrew by saying add the words "pancake- to your auction listing you will get more $$$$$" Advertising 101 1. Identify & target your buyer 2. Notify as many people as possible 3. Describe item to sound appealing Seems to me we have done their marketing job for them. Thanx. for helping us "boyscouts" Last edited on Thu Apr 25th, 2013 06:39 pm by Troy Addy |
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Ron Gibson Guest
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Troy Addy wrote:So Ron, if a dealer has a fan in a shop YOU want to buy you would share the location "freely" w/ the club members? No, I'd buy it....what would you do? If I wasn't interested or it was to rich for my blood I'd let everyone know about it. Or should I keep quite just in case another member might be wanting to buy it? How many calls took place making others aware of this auction? I know of at least two people that called several members about items in the auction. Should they have kept their mouth shut? |
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Tom Dreesen AFCA Member
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Ron Gibson wrote: Troy Addy wrote: A one time fixed price item available to the first with the bucks is not the same as an auction. Anyone can say to anyone else whatever they want. There is a difference between private conversation and public posting. |
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Michael Rathberger Guest
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Ron Gibson wrote: Troy Addy wrote: That's part of the collecting art Ron, networking. I have seen auctions with fans I cannot get to in my hunting grounds that I clue a person I know in the area up about, but if I'm heading out to it, I say nothing. I expect the same to happen in reverse. |
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Ron Gibson Guest
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Michael Rathberger wrote:Ron Gibson wrote:Troy Addy wrote: And is this site not part of networking? How many people is it ok to let in on the "secret" before that imaginary line is crossed? 1, 2, 10, 12? |
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Ron Gibson Guest
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Tom Dreesen wrote:Ron Gibson wrote:Troy Addy wrote: So had Nick taken the time to tell 10 people in private and they told 10 people in private, etc you wouldn't be bothered? How about had it been posted in the members only section? How many private conversations are allowed before that line is crossed? Last edited on Thu Apr 25th, 2013 07:45 pm by Ron Gibson |
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Tom Dreesen AFCA Member
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Ron Gibson wrote: Tom Dreesen wrote: Nick is late to the party. If you can't understand the difference between private conversation and public posting, then I can't help you. |
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Ron Gibson Guest
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These are just a few of the sites advertising the auction....I probably shouldn't mention auction zip as I use it quite often to find auctions. http://www.dailynewstranscript.com/x1148864748/Elli-Buk-Collection-to-be-auctioned-off#axzz2RUitHfkI http://www.artdaily.org/index.asp?int_sec=2&int_new=61701#.UXleQ4y9KSM http://www.artfixdaily.com/calendar/details/5276-the-elli-buk-collection-exhibition-and-auction http://www.auctionzip.com/Listings/1761742.html http://www.liveauctioneers.com/catalog/39506_the-elli-buk-collection-day-2/page1 |
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Steve Cunningham Administrator
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I've traveled distances to attend auctions. I walk in and everybody is there. I did attend a clock auction once. Everyone knew it was happening. But the ads came out after the auction. They held it 75 mikes south of Houston, on Super Bowl Sunday. A few of us showed up. I got a nice clock for very little. There was a fan auction in 1998 or 1999 just outside Kansas City. It was advertised. The fan club members came. Each got a fan they wanted. They were still bidding against the locals. The Owl's Head Auctions were held in Owl's Head, Maine. I flew to Boston, then took a prop to Portland, and drove to the Auction. They had about 600 buyers there, and who knows how many more on the phone. The Internet was in it's infancy then, so no on-line bidding. They sold 900 items in one day in 1994. We went back in 1997. They had a couple of USEL motors, and I wanted one. A man named Sandy Weill showed up. He was Chairman of Citibank, and bidder #150. Someone had helped him decide what was best and marked his catalog. If he wanted it, he just held up his number ti they said "Sold!" I think he bought 65% of the auction. I hope someone like that doesn't come to Conneticutt. |
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Ron Gibson Guest
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Tom Dreesen wrote:Ron Gibson wrote:Tom Dreesen wrote: Oh I understand the difference but disagree with the affect. As I pointed out in my above post, there are many many public postings. Can you honestly say with all the deep pockets that are already aware Nick's posting is going to make a difference? I don't think it will. |
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Tom Dreesen AFCA Member
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Ron Gibson wrote: These are just a few of the sites advertising the auction....I probably shouldn't mention auction zip as I use it quite often to find auctions. You have a point? In one of my now deleted posts, I said it was a well advertised auction and anyone who wanted to know, knew. So why again post it here? |
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Tom Dreesen AFCA Member
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Ron Gibson wrote: Tom Dreesen wrote: I know it can. I know of specific instances. And no, I won't post them here. You can dis-believe whatever you want. |
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Troy Addy Guest
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Ron its a concept. If you are a buyer or a bidder you don't tell everyone you know. Sure auctions are advertised vs. a store or a private sale. If you plan to bid or buy from a person you don't post the details. Clearly this is all concept w/ no reality to you because you are not personally invested. |
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Michael Rathberger Guest
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Ron Gibson wrote: Michael Rathberger wrote: I view this site more as an information source about fans, I don't come here to find out where they are, and if this post makes sense to you, so be it. It won't be long before every farm auction with a fan in it is posted prior to auction day, then you can pay ebay prices everywhere. Last edited on Thu Apr 25th, 2013 08:29 pm by Michael Rathberger |
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Stephen Davis Guest 
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I won't post a link to an auction bill. The times I've found cool fans at auctions I can't attend, I've looked through the membership directory and forwarded the link to whoever was closest to the auction. It's tough enough to score any sort of deals with all the ebayers and resellers out there, and I don't like the idea of a bunch of members running the prices up on each other. I've PM'd several links to members I've never met and had never chatted with on posts or PM's. I'd rather one member get the opportunity to get a deal; everyone likes a bargain. I guess if someone really feels like sharing an auction link with all the other collectors, I would suggest that at least it be posted in the members only section to limit the information to the collectors who support the AFCA. |
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Tom Dreesen AFCA Member
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Ron Gibson wrote: These are just a few of the sites advertising the auction....I probably shouldn't mention auction zip as I use it quite often to find auctions. And not a single one mentions fans (without searching the auctionzip or LA listings) So just how did you miss this auction again? Last edited on Thu Apr 25th, 2013 10:24 pm by Tom Dreesen |
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Ron Gibson Guest
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Tom Dreesen wrote:Ron Gibson wrote:These are just a few of the sites advertising the auction....I probably shouldn't mention auction zip as I use it quite often to find auctions. And Nick's original post didn't mention fans either. So is that the prerequisite? Don't mention the fans? Not until people started whining did he mention fans, of course several of those posts have been deleted. I didn't miss finding the auction, I wasn't looking. Work has been extremely busy so I have not been following hardly any auctions, eBay or otherwise. |
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Tom Dreesen AFCA Member
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Ron Gibson wrote: Tom Dreesen wrote: Posted in a fan forum CHECK Prob contains fans CHECK So you thank him for something you didn't care about anyway. I see (said the blind man to the deaf mute). Last edited on Thu Apr 25th, 2013 10:58 pm by Tom Dreesen |
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Ron Gibson Guest
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Tom Dreesen wrote:Ron Gibson wrote:Tom Dreesen wrote: Even you said Nick was late to the party.....so if he was late, what's it matter? I never said I didn't care, I said I didn't have time....quite an assumption. |
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Tom Dreesen AFCA Member
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"I wasn't looking." is what you said. "so if he was late, what's it matter?" Late in terms of the party, but still before the auction started. Think that might matter a teensy bit? |
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Rod Rogers Administrator
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Bottom line...... The AFCA, its moderators, members nor guests have the right to prohibit posts sharing information about interesting and legitimate auctions that relate to fans. Live and let live! Rod Rogers |
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Tom Dreesen AFCA Member
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Rod Rogers wrote: Bottom line...... Not yet. Tomorrow is another day. We already prohibit non members from posting their auctions ... But if you can find a Boy Scout member ... Last edited on Fri Apr 26th, 2013 01:51 am by Tom Dreesen |
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Steve Cunningham Administrator
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I hope any bidders from the AFCA come home with something good. If you do, let us know. If you think we should know. |
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Steve Sherwood AFCA Member 
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It does not matter much if it's posted on here, it's a big auction with lots of antique items and prices will be extremely high for anything at that auction. There will be some big spenders at this auction with deep pockets for sure and they will buy at any price.Even those old dental chairs will probably bring high dollar amounts and in my opinion the are only worth there scrap price. Those are not even the good ones.It's a big auction in the north east and big money will be there. Good luck getting a deal on anything. Last edited on Fri Apr 26th, 2013 12:50 am by Steve Sherwood |
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Mike Dombek Guest
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Stephen Davis wrote:I won't post a link to an auction bill. The times I've found cool fans at auctions I can't attend, I've looked through the membership directory and forwarded the link to whoever was closest to the auction. It's tough enough to score any sort of deals with all the ebayers and resellers out there, and I don't like the idea of a bunch of members running the prices up on each other. I've PM'd several links to members I've never met and had never chatted with on posts or PM's. I'd rather one member get the opportunity to get a deal; everyone likes a bargain. I guess if someone really feels like sharing an auction link with all the other collectors, I would suggest that at least it be posted in the members only section to limit the information to the collectors who support the AFCA. I couldn't agree more. The fans that sold at the buk auction today almost went for eBay prices anyway and they were untested. Oh well |
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Nicholas Denney Guest
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Mike Dombek wrote:
Almost...? Put the cage and oiler from the middle fan on the left fan and you've got your $1000 right there, if you want to talk "ebay prices". I expected more like $1500 for this lot: http://www.groganco.com/asp/fullCatalogue.asp?salelot=137++++++565+&refno=+++14474  |
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Tom Dreesen AFCA Member
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Nicholas Denney wrote: Mike Dombek wrote: Boy Scouts have expectations? Who knew? |
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Mike Dombek Guest
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That left fan has the oiler. But either way after the premium and tax your 1300 or so. The half rib is missing the switch which makes me wonder if the coil is gone too. Wonder if the flat ribs have intact or present switches/internals. So maybe not ebay prices but by no means a screaming deal, unless you have the parts then the buyer stands to make a grand or better. I was in at $800 so maybe I am just bitter haha. And I would have won it to if it wasn't for this pesky thread!  Last edited on Fri Apr 26th, 2013 03:53 am by Mike Dombek |
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John Rothrock Guest 
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Mike Dombek wrote:That left fan has the oiler. But either way after the premium and tax your 1300 or so. Yeah that's what I was thinking, that pesky buyer's premium, gotta figure it in when you set your number |
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Tim Marks Guest
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Tom Dreesen wrote:
Ok, we know you don't like Nick. Can you give us a break though? This whole thread has gotten way bigger than it ever needed to be (and would have been even bigger had the mods not deleted half the posts) because you are not letting this subject go. You're not doing yourself any favors of avoiding attention for the auction by replying to this thread all the time. Respectfully, let it go. T |
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George Durbin AFCA Member
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Mike Dombek wrote:Nicholas Denney wrote: I am interested in what the staghorn sells for! I have a nice little staghorn I am thinking about selling and offering to club members first, but I want a current reference point to go buy. If anyone finds out let me know... How does one get to completed sales in e-pay? geo... |
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Ron May AFCA Member 
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I saw your Staghorn George. They're only worth $10 to $20 tops. I'll be a nice guy and offer you a full $25 plus shipping to take that thing off your hands and make some room on your shelf!! |
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Steve Stephens Guest
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George Durbin wrote:Mike Dombek wrote: |
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George Durbin AFCA Member
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Ron May wrote:I saw your Staghorn George. They're only worth $10 to $20 tops. I'll be a nice guy and offer you a full $25 plus shipping to take that thing off your hands and make some room on your shelf!! Heheh BEST OFFER SO FAR!!! I am kidding!!!!!! If I decide to sell it I will set a price as per forum rules... But dang $25 and you pay for shipping? That is generous!! |
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Ron May AFCA Member
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Seriously, I'll be looking for that one if you sell it. I've always liked those! |
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George Durbin AFCA Member
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Steve Stephens wrote:George Durbin wrote: |
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Steve Stephens Guest
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Ebay is always changing their pages so what was there is now elsewhere. |
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Mike Dombek Guest
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Didn't a member just have a staghorn for sale? Tab foot oscillator if I remember...$900 |
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Michael Mirin AFCA Member 
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How About a Movie! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BUpF__h-IY&list=FLEPkfDB0cRJ-7nvt4QFtX_g |
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John Trier AFCA Member 
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Auction stories: Steve ...... I was at the Kansas City auction you referred to. The most memorable and fun auction ever. Geoff, Loyd Davis, many other afca members were there hooting it up. We stayed out of each others way from time to time and bid against each other too. Never had so much fun at an auction in my life. I had the privilege in buying the feather vane for another member who could not attend. Couldn't get the blade off and successfully shipped it crated with blade attached. We were buying fans in the parking lot after the auction too. Another in Winterset where a Perret motor sold and I bid against Loyd Davis and lost. Loyd knew I was bidding and afterwards all but gave me a hug. Concerning the Elli Buk auction. In other areas, very important and rare items sold for pennies on the dollar. I can't explain it on such a well advertised auction. |
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George Durbin AFCA Member
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was ttere a staghorn fan at the auction? |
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John Rothrock Guest
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John, I think their mistake might have been flooding the market with too much at one time. I think (and hindsight is 20/20) that they should have split it into 2 separate auctions several months apart. They would still have had huge auctions that drew attention from afar. A lot of things didn't seem to reach their auction estimates, and the high buyer's premium may have been part of the cause, buyer's premium where I'm from is always 10% and I have never paid sales tax in NC either. But really I think they flooded the market the example I would point to was the microscopes--They had maybe 150 of them, even if you had 20 hardcore microscope guys in attendance, they can all take home 7-8 without getting into wars with each other. It's hard to go all in on something when you know there are 100+ still to be sold. I'm sure the best ones still brought good money, but the rest would bring less. Same thing with all the medical equip, even if you're buying to resell, you can't get overloaded with too much of the same stuff. Would really like to have seen this stuff in person--Glad to see Nick didn't drive up the prices too much---Remember the final auction price comes down to 2 people--they're the only ones that really matter in the end. |
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Tom Dreesen AFCA Member
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The Westy bipolar fan stump, listed only as a "motor", went for $1,600 without adding on the 23% buyer's premium or the mandatory 6+ sales tax, even with a resale license (yes, I have one). |
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Steve Cunningham Administrator
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The Tab Base Menominee went for hammer price of $700, |
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Jeff Whitfield AFCA Member 
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Tom Dreesen wrote:The Westy bipolar fan stump, listed only as a "motor", went for $1,600 without adding on the 23% buyer's premium or the mandatory 6+ sales tax, even with a resale license (yes, I have one). Look over in the background of Lot 439. Behind the Tesla and R&M is what looks like the cage for a Western Electric bipolar fan. It wouldn't surprise me if the Westy's blade was in the pile. http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/16961810_westing-house-and-robbins-and-myers-fans-two-fans-one |
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Tom Dreesen AFCA Member
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Jeff Whitfield wrote: Tom Dreesen wrote: Yes, but you would have to be there and talk them into it. I have done such before at auctions, but I was a good customer. It is nice, but 1600 plus fees complete is no bargain. |
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John Trier AFCA Member
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John Rothrock wrote:John, I think their mistake might have been flooding the market with too much at one time. I think (and hindsight is 20/20) that they should have split it into 2 separate auctions several months apart. They would still have had huge auctions that drew attention from afar. A lot of things didn't seem to reach their auction estimates, and the high buyer's premium may have been part of the cause, buyer's premium where I'm from is always 10% and I have never paid sales tax in NC either. But really I think they flooded the market the example I would point to was the microscopes--They had maybe 150 of them, even if you had 20 hardcore microscope guys in attendance, they can all take home 7-8 without getting into wars with each other. It's hard to go all in on something when you know there are 100+ still to be sold. I'm sure the best ones still brought good money, but the rest would bring less. Same thing with all the medical equip, even if you're buying to resell, you can't get overloaded with too much of the same stuff. Would really like to have seen this stuff in person--Glad to see Nick didn't drive up the prices too much---Remember the final auction price comes down to 2 people--they're the only ones that really matter in the end. Yes .... very true. But there was a microscope marked double pillared microscope by Bulloch. This is the holy grail of american made microscopes. 7K was an absolute steal and I don't get it since microscopes are particularly hot right now and this was so well advertised. A much lesser Bulloch model sold for $8600 on ebay a few months ago. All this makes one re think our collections as we eventually take up the rocking chair and prepare for the journey to the Grey Havens. |
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Tim Marks Guest
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John Trier wrote:All this makes one re think our collections as we eventually take up the rocking chair and prepare for the journey to the Grey Havens. Curious, what are you re-thinking? How valuable the fans are? |
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John Trier AFCA Member
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No..... an exit strategy, we know what our stuff is worth. We are only custodians for a short time on what ever we collect. As we invest in this stuff, especially higher end pieces, I'd hate to see what happened to items like the one I mentioned above. This auction has potentially shown me what not to do. I rarely met a family that both people are insanely obsessed with collecting the same thing. It is usually the man supported by a loving wife. As it is in my case. But how will our stuff will be treated or disposed of in order to best benefit those that survive me? This particular auction was a huge collection. I know some about microscopes, and they were very good american made examples that almost never come up for sale, a few have never come up for a competitive sale, and they went dirt cheap, in a time when it's pretty easy to get a good fair market value. This auction escaped no serious collector or dealer. I talked to one dealer who is also in shock. None of us want to buy a Tesla for $2500 and sell it for $500, and some collectors have a lot of fans (or what ever) to consider. |
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Tim Marks Guest
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John- Your post above makes a lot of sense. I've been involved with a lot of hobbies involving collectibles and I've got to be honest: at the end of the day if the collector passes away with a large collection still in his position, the estate does not reap a fair value from it when it's inevitably sold at auction. Honestly I'm not a huge fan of the "horde" style collections. I think it's better to pass them on to friends, children and other collectors prior to any impending demise. I know that I'd hate to leave my fiance with my collection if I had the good fortunate of being able to plan for my own demise. Selling or auctioning a huge collection of what-have-you is just too much work for someone who really shouldn't have to be dealing with so much grief. I don't know, just thinking out loud. T Last edited on Mon Apr 29th, 2013 05:35 am by Tim Marks |
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George Durbin AFCA Member
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Unless my demise is sudden I will not leave it to my wife to sell it off... I have witnessed in my own family this issue. Generally the misses is simply overwhelmed with a collection and usually given horrible advice as how to dispose of it. And many times the family members just don't know what its worth... I joke around that he who dies with the most fans is the winner! Not really! But I am trying! |
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