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Ted Kaczor AFCA Member 
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I posted this on Forum and receive nice comments, thank you all, but I need to find out if there will be any interest in this type of badges, so I decided to ask the questien here on BST. Do not breake my stones about no price. Check pictures and please post your reply with possible interest. It will help me to decide whether to start project or drop it. Thanks again. Attached Image (viewed 1261 times): |
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Ted Kaczor AFCA Member
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pic2 Attached Image (viewed 1299 times): |
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Ted Kaczor AFCA Member
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pic3 Attached Image (viewed 1228 times): |
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Steve Stephens Guest 
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Ted, you might add to your first post here exactly which years or GE fans this badge is correct for. |
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Tim Marks Guest
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Ted- I'm curious how many you need to make to make it financially viable to you. T |
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Gary Hagan Guest 
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Depending on the price I would be interested in purchasing a couple. |
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Steve Cunningham Administrator 
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Go for it Ted. That work is wonderful. |
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Ted Kaczor AFCA Member
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Steve Cunningham wrote: Go for it Ted. That work is wonderful. I'll listen to you Steve and will go on with it. |
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Ted Kaczor AFCA Member
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Steve Stephens wrote: Ted, you might add to your first post here exactly which years or GE fans this badge is correct for. Steve you're right, and please add if anything is missing, I would appreciate it. This type of badges were first used on 1904 Pancakes with 8 - "S" wires cages. I'll also modify them to be used on later Side Winder, Round Back, BMY, SMY, 3 Star, 2 Star and also Bell Oscillator models. Speciffically I'm talking about the tabs that fold in the back and hold round cover. Hope this will cover all the installation possibilities that this badge could be use on. |
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Steve Stephens Guest
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Ted,I don't know if anything is missing but I can take some photos of some representive badges from my fans. I know that there were several small changes in badges over the years andd the ones on the welded cages were different from earlier ones. Also, the backing plate on the last two years of pancakes was held on differently than on BMYs for instance, at least from what I have seen. But you are looking to make BMY and later badges so I will see what I can come up with, hopefully tomorrow. Edit, here are a ton of badges I took of many of my GEs. There are fewer differences among the years that I thought. 1900 Attached Image (viewed 1028 times): Last edited on Sun Aug 25th, 2013 04:55 am by Steve Stephens |
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Steve Stephens Guest
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1902 Attached Image (viewed 1017 times): |
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Steve Stephens Guest
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Early 1903 12 wire cage Attached Image (viewed 1037 times): Last edited on Sun Aug 25th, 2013 04:57 am by Steve Stephens |
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Steve Stephens Guest
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1904, 8 wire cage Attached Image (viewed 1010 times): |
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Steve Stephens Guest
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1908-09 BMY Attached Image (viewed 1009 times): |
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Steve Stephens Guest
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1911-12 BMY Attached Image (viewed 1042 times): |
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Steve Stephens Guest
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1913 SMY with drop ring cage Attached Image (viewed 1054 times): |
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Steve Stephens Guest
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1914 SMY with parallel ring cage Attached Image (viewed 999 times): |
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Steve Stephens Guest
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1915 3-star Form R4, early model with brass struts and pot metal oscillator wheel. This seems to be when GE started to paint the background of the badge. In addition it looks like they sanded the face of the badge on the raised parts giving the raised parts a flatter look. The dots got larger starting here I think. Anyone want to count dots? Attached Image (viewed 908 times): Last edited on Sun Aug 25th, 2013 05:13 am by Steve Stephens |
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Steve Stephens Guest
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1916 2-star Form S3 Probably the last of the brass cages for regular production. Attached Image (viewed 987 times): |
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Steve Stephens Guest
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1920 Form V5, first brass belled oscillator and last to use a wrapped steel cage. Attached Image (viewed 993 times): |
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Steve Stephens Guest
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1922 Form AB brass belled oscillator with welded steel cage. This is the latest GE I have that uses this type of badge. Attached Image (viewed 1028 times): |
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Steve Stephens Guest
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Now some photos of the rear of the badges. 1899, all these badges are from 12" fans. I would have used the rear photo of the 1900 front I posted but this is a better photo and 1899-1900 are identical. Attached Image (viewed 993 times): |
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Steve Stephens Guest
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1902 The badge has a stud soldered to the rear of it and is held to the disc in the center of the cage with the stud through a small hole with a nut securing it. Attached Image (viewed 1021 times): |
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Steve Stephens Guest
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Early 1903 is the same as 1901-02 Attached Image (viewed 1008 times): |
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Steve Stephens Guest
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1904 was the first to use a new type of cage/badge construction. No backing disc was used on 1904-05 models Scroll to bottom of this series of photos to see the crimping method for 1906-08 pancake cages. Attached Image (viewed 962 times): Last edited on Sun Aug 25th, 2013 05:53 am by Steve Stephens |
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Steve Stephens Guest
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1908-09 BMY Note how the brass backing disc is crimped to the badge. It is also the first badge that could be slipped OVER the S-wires having a notch for each wire on the back of the badge. Prior to the BMY badges the S-wires were placed into holes in the side of the badge. I don't have a 1906-07 pancake to take photos of but did find a photo at the bottom of my photos. They did use a brass disc but it was crimped into place by squeezing at four spots around the back of the badge. The badge did not have the crimping fingers all around it. Attached Image (viewed 997 times): Last edited on Sun Aug 25th, 2013 05:56 am by Steve Stephens |
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Steve Stephens Guest
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1911-12 BMY Attached Image (viewed 1038 times): |
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Steve Stephens Guest
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1913 SMY with drop ring cage Attached Image (viewed 1004 times): |
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Steve Stephens Guest
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1914 SMY with parallel ring cage Attached Image (viewed 1022 times): |
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Steve Stephens Guest
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1915 Form R4 3-star Now the backing disc had a hole in its center. Attached Image (viewed 996 times): |
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Steve Stephens Guest
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1916 Form S3 2-star Attached Image (viewed 992 times): |
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Steve Stephens Guest
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1920 Form V5 brass bell oscillator, wrapped steel cage Attached Image (viewed 1036 times): |
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Steve Stephens Guest
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1922 Form AB with welded steel cage. The fingers that are crimped over the backing disc have been changed some and look to be crimped more securely than previously. The backing disc is now made of steel instead of the previous brass discs. Attached Image (viewed 1014 times): Last edited on Sun Aug 25th, 2013 05:43 am by Steve Stephens |
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Steve Stephens Guest
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This is the way the badge backing disc was crimped in place on the 1906-08 pancakes; the sides of the badge were crimped in four spots. I assume with the BMY of 1908 the badge itself was changed to have the crimping fingers. Attached Image (viewed 998 times): Last edited on Sun Aug 25th, 2013 05:50 am by Steve Stephens |
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Tim Marks Guest
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Steve- Pretty wonderful assortment of photos. I know that helps me a lot in understanding the history of these fans. Ted- please do make this badge. I think judging from Steve's pics that if you make a version for the 1904+ cakes that it will be modifiable for all other GE's right up to the brass bells. I know I'll be in for two assuming price is your typical reasonable amount. T |
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Steve Stephens Guest
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I think badges for 1904-1908 pancake would or could be the same. The BMY badges have those crimping fingers so the depth of the stamped badge would have to be greater wouldn't it? Compare the badges in posts 17 and 18. With the advent of the painted badge it changed a lot. Note the spaces between lines of the GE letters and from the letters to other parts of the badge. It's really very different in small ways. Plus the larger dots. A fan really requires the right sized dots... Looking at all the badge photos do you see any POLISHED brass? Those badges are all "original" in that they have not been polished or stripped of what original finish remains. GE, from what I can tell, used a gilt like finish from at least 1903 to 1916 then painted many parts, now steel, that were brass. Prior to 1903 they may have polished the brass but fans that I have seen do not have a finish to indicate what type it was when new. Starting in 1920 GE went back to brass blade but the began to polish the blades to a mirror finish which lasted until 1930 when the blade material was changed to aluminum, painted GE green Last edited on Sun Aug 25th, 2013 07:20 am by Steve Stephens |
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Ted Kaczor AFCA Member
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Tremendous hard work by Steve, You saved me a days worth of work if I'm to dig all the fans out and make pictures than put them back in. THANK YOU. I came to the same conclussion on the badges and confirmed exact the same details on them. So, my project will include badges that could be used on GE fan models 1904 until 1914, with hole modiffications on them past the 1908 Pancakes, and different backing plates/installation features. Now, the 1914-16-17 with flat GE lettering could be done upon request. The later badges for steel blades 2 Star Oscillators and Bell Oscillators are with larger details (bumps and GE letters) but the size (diameter) is the same so it could also be used as a lack of other option. |
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Steve Stephens Guest
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Ted Kaczor wrote: Now, the 1914-16-17 with flat GE lettering could be done upon request.1914 would be the same as previous years. 1915 brought the change to flattened (sanded?) top surface of the badge, painted background, larger dots, and a change in the GE logo as well as those four raised curly details around the outer part of the badge; they got longer tails. Spacing of the logo loops and letters is all different from previous years. But most people probably would not notice those later changes on a fan unless they were to compare side to side. The majority of people needing a badge would probably want one for the earlier fans anyway. It was a bit time consuming to take the photos. My fans are all where I can easily get to them but still require a stool to grab them from their shelves. The time is worth it because I learn by researching. Kim, I'd appreciate any comments or corrections you can offer on what I said about the badges. I know you have been through about 10 or more times the number of GE fans that I have. |
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Tim Marks Guest
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Steve- Will you be posting these images on to your blog? T |
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Kim Frank AFCA Member 
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Steve Stephens wrote: Kim, I'd appreciate any comments or corrections you can offer on what I said about the badges. I know you have been through about 10 or more times the number of GE fans that I have. You've covered the GE badge subject fairly indepth. I might add that you'll see a stiffening band on the badges of some 1904/05 12 inch cages....and I'm still a proponent of some 1904 and later GE cakes having 8 wire wrapped cages and feel they weren't BMY donor cages. Here's the reasoning behind my thoughts. Pull the crimped disk from the back of the badge on any BMY cage after 1908. What you'll see is a stamped brass hub holding the s-wires......... Attached Image (viewed 869 times): |
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Kim Frank AFCA Member
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The cages that I have on many of my later cakes have a cast brass hub holding the s-wires. I have seen this hub on '08 BMY cages too....maybe an inventory carry over to the new model fans of 1908 Attached Image (viewed 590 times): |
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Kim Frank AFCA Member
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The above hub is on the cage for the 1904 stick that I got from Luke S. The badge has a light crimp to hold the disk in place. About half of the cake models I have after 1903 sport a wrapped cage, as have about half the cakes I've restored for collectors..... Attached Image (viewed 583 times): |
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Steve Stephens Guest
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Tim Marks wrote: Steve-I hadn't plans to do so Tim but any new post would be better than the lack of new posts for a long time. Kim, I have seen your posts before of the stamped and cast holders for the S-wires behind the badge but have not had a reason to remove my fans' badges or backing plates so I am not seeing the whole story. I still find it unlikely that GE would mix both wrapped and pinned cages in one year but, then, we wouldn't expect to see a brass cage on a 1923 16" AOU either. Another 1923 with brass cage showed up on ebay a few weeks ago. The cage was polished but the seller said when he got it it was painted the same green as the fan as is mine. I agree with the reinforcing ring inside some 1904 badges, what about 1905? I think at least one of my 1904 16" pancakes had that reinforcement ring. |
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Ted Kaczor AFCA Member
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Steve Stephens wrote: Tim Marks wrote:Steve-I hadn't plans to do so Tim but any new post would be better than the lack of new posts for a long time. As far as the reinforcing rings, I have a few Pancakes with the rings inside and few without...both original un-restored...not yet. |
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Kim Frank AFCA Member
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I have '04's and '05's with and without the reinforcing ring. Also have them with wrapped rear rings. The most confounding cage I have is on a 16 inch 1904. The badge slips over the s-wires and is held in place by a crimped disk, but the s-wires pierce the back ring.........and why wouldn't GE use both type cages. Do you think they had only one vendor? |
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Steve Stephens Guest
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Kim Frank wrote: I have '04's and '05's with and without the reinforcing ring. Also have them with wrapped rear rings. The most confounding cage I have is on a 16 inch 1904. The badge slips over the s-wires and is held in place by a crimped disk, but the s-wires pierce the back ring.........and why wouldn't GE use both type cages. Do you think they had only one vendor?I don't know if GE had vendors for their cages or made them in-house. Do you know if they used vendors to make their cages? This article does not clarify: http://tinyurl.com/lu8kpdj As for why GE would not use both wrapped and pinned cages during the same year I would say not so as to keep the cage appearance identical among all fans in that model year. I would have to see the cages you have had to form another opinion but, as of now, I would say "wrapped or pinned, not both". |
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Kim Frank AFCA Member
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Steve Stephens wrote: so as to keep the cage appearance identical among all fans in that model year. I would have to see the cages you have had to form another opinion but, as of now, I would say "wrapped or pinned, not both". You mean like the model year of 1903, when GE had six different styles offered? Full rib base and four struts with ten wire cage and cast brass blade hub, full rib base and three struts with ten wire cage and cast brass blade hub, half ribbed base and three struts with ten or eight wire cage with cast or stamped brass blade hub. Sounds like GE worried about appearances being identical within a model year. I have no idea as to whether or not GE used more than one vendor or if they were made in house. I have 51 cakes in my collection and have restored at least that many for others. I have probably had my hands on at least that many more over the years. With the '04's and '05's being my particular favorites, I tend to pay a bit more attention to them. When about half of those have a wrapped cage and the other half have pinned, I don't believe those wrapped ones were donor cages from BMYs.....Here's a fact I bet you weren't aware of......the GE badge on a ten wire cage has sixteen more dimples than the eight wire counterpart......check it out. Last edited on Mon Aug 26th, 2013 04:41 am by Kim Frank |
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Steve Stephens Guest
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Kim Frank wrote: Here's a fact I bet you weren't aware of......the GE badge on a ten wire cage has sixteen more dimples than the eight wire counterpart......check it out. I saw you looking hard at something for a long time at Fanfair Kim but didn't realize you were counting dimples. That's very nice to know in case I find a loose 10 wire cage badge. I'll count the dimples. You would probably just count the holes for the S-wires to enter the badge but that's too simple. Another way to check if 8 or 10 wire cage badge is to measure the depth of the badge. Good Enough is close enough. Yes, I know 10 wire cages have no holes in the badge. As for wrapped and pinned for 1901-1908 I will defer to spending more time observing. |
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Kim Frank AFCA Member
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Steve Stephens wrote: As for wrapped and pinned for 1901-1908 I will defer to spending more time observing. Your choice. Just don't confuse supposition for fact.... |
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Rick Huckabee AFCA Member 
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I'll buy two Ted. Thanks Steve for the History and pics. |
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Ted Kaczor AFCA Member
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Rick Huckabee wrote: I'll buy two Ted. Thanks Steve for the History and pics. Thank you Mike , this is what I need, nothing bonding but just potential interest. |
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Ted Kaczor AFCA Member
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Steve Cunningham wrote: Go for it Ted. That work is wonderful. Steve, You educated me enogh...I started the process investing first $450 toward the project. It will take about 4 months... |
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