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TO: Mr.Darryl Hudson  Rate Topic 
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 Posted: Sun Mar 2nd, 2014 03:54 am
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Steve Stephens
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Thanks Jeff, nice to know the maker and it's a nice kidney.

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 Posted: Sun Mar 2nd, 2014 06:16 pm
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Tim Marks
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Dean Steinhaus wrote: THIS IS A COPY OF THE PM THAT I SENT TO DAVE DALSIN

Hi Dave,

Jay Fontanella, a member of the AFCA, mentioned that you made some really good wax molds for the kidney housing and pointer when you were producing them. He also said he thought that you gave them to someone that was going to try and make some more. I have been speaking with Tim Marks about the possibility of making them again and was wondering if the person that you gave the wax molds to would be willing to let Tim Marks use them.

Any help would be greatly Appreciated by all of us Kidney FANS!

Thank You,

Dean

Dean-

I appreciate your enthusiasm but I can't say that I'm the right person to receive a wax mold for the positive. If I pursued reproducing the kidney I would model the part in CAD, this would allow me to easily scale it up 1.5%. I'd then print the positive and provide that printed part to a foundry. 

But timing is not great for me. I have a little girl due to arrive literally any day now and lots of more pressing issues going on at work. I do have a complete kidney gear box in my parts collection, I just need to degrease it so that I can start modeling it. 

Last edited on Sun Mar 2nd, 2014 06:16 pm by Tim Marks

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 Posted: Sun Mar 2nd, 2014 06:27 pm
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Dean Steinhaus
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Tim, Congratulations on the New arrival coming Soon. Family comes First. I do hope that you, or someone with the ability, will take this project and run with it in the near future.

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 Posted: Sun Mar 2nd, 2014 06:29 pm
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Jay Fontanella
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Jeff Whitfield wrote: Steve Stephens wrote: There was someone else casting kidney gearbox housings out of aluminum at one time.  I have one which I bought from Geoff.  No idea of the person who made the castings.That was Paul Graves and he made over 50 of then over the years, he says. We saw this thread at the fan meet.
You mention Paul was making them over the years, I am guessing he stopped making them?

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 Posted: Sun Mar 2nd, 2014 06:43 pm
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Dean Steinhaus
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Calling Paul! Calling Paul! Come in Paul!!:bow

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 Posted: Mon Mar 3rd, 2014 02:11 am
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Doug Handley
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Thomas Peters wrote: I will start with a heresy among fan people. 
Make a gear box cover and gear box out of a modern plastic. It could be injection molded, or might even be produced with a 3-D copier.
Honestly, as far  as  strength, it would probably equal or might even exceed an original pot metal job.
Being out of plastic, it should also benefit from minimal shrinkage.
Once painted, no one should ever know what it was made from, just by casual observation.


Allright, here come the slings  and arrows.

I think that this is a dang good idea for at least the gearbox.  I feel sure (with my limited knowledge) this could be done.  I have read of people printing working firearms with the plastic 3-D printers.  I would have no problem with a plastic gearbox if it got my fan to oscillate.

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 Posted: Mon Mar 3rd, 2014 02:56 am
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Tim Marks
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One can just as easily print in metal these days, as I mentioned in an earlier post. Plastic, metal, cast or printed, all options would have a secondary milling operation, and that's the primary frustration with this project.

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 Posted: Mon Mar 3rd, 2014 06:11 am
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Jeff Whitfield
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Jay Fontanella wrote: Jeff Whitfield wrote: Steve Stephens wrote: There was someone else casting kidney gearbox housings out of aluminum at one time.  I have one which I bought from Geoff.  No idea of the person who made the castings.That was Paul Graves and he made over 50 of then over the years, he says. We saw this thread at the fan meet.
You mention Paul was making them over the years, I am guessing he stopped making them?

He said he had blueprints for the boxes and made them in the 1990s. If you're really interested in the gearboxes, you might want to contact him.

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 Posted: Tue Mar 4th, 2014 05:09 am
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Paul D Graves
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Dean Steinhaus wrote: Calling Paul! Calling Paul! Come in Paul!!:bowI'm here and would consider doing a run of boxes . BUT first I'm buried in work that needs to be done first and when I'm done then I would consider it .

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 Posted: Tue Mar 4th, 2014 05:15 am
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Dean Steinhaus
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Thank you, Thank you,Thank YOU PAUL!
Let me know the cost and your address and I will send payment.

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 Posted: Tue Mar 4th, 2014 05:39 am
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Paul D Graves
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Dean Steinhaus wrote: Thank you, Thank you,Thank YOU PAUL!
Let me know the cost and your address and I will send payment.
Hold your horses Dean . I will make a run of these and need as least 10 orders, a good aluminum caster , A solid case for copying , and most important my serious backlog of work done . I'm so buried I can't give you an est of when we can start .

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 Posted: Tue Mar 4th, 2014 05:44 am
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Dean Steinhaus
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Sounds good, I can wait. Thanks Paul

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 Posted: Tue Mar 4th, 2014 01:44 pm
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Fred Berry
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It is a shame that Generic Electric cast these gear boxes in pot metal. A well adjusted kidney oscillator is the most user-friendly oscillator out there. I prefer these over the sidewinder and the round back and any other GE oscillator in fan land.

The Dalsin repros were great bling for a kidney fan in need, adding beauty to the fan if you decided to polish instead of paint.

They especially look good with a bronze lever too.

Attached Image (viewed 1182 times):

B&B Kidney 3.jpg

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 Posted: Tue Mar 4th, 2014 04:43 pm
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Tim Pettman
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Sorry guys. I have been very busy lately with a lot going on. I have the molds that Dave had. He is no longer reproducing them as has been stated. I am intending to get to it later this spring. I am still looking for a casting facility that will do bronze in the area, as well as some other details to make this work. As has been stated by Darryl and others, it is a tremendous amount of work. The castings right out of the mold need several hours of work. They need internal machining/cleanup, holes drilled, etc. I do not have any gears or shafts as such, so you would be on your own for that part of it. I have no idea yet as to the cost of the "box and lid" only, but will post as soon as i do.  T

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 Posted: Tue Mar 4th, 2014 09:52 pm
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Dean Steinhaus
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Thanks tim.

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 Posted: Tue Mar 4th, 2014 11:33 pm
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Tony Clayton
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I checked into having a local artist that casts in bronze about possibly reproducing some Victor cage badges in brass. Upon my visit he offered to do it for me but said he only uses bronze. Well that was not what I wanted so I passed on the project. I'd gladly pass the information on to Tim if this might be of any interest since you have a mold and only need to have them cast.

Feel free to PM or email me if interested. 

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 Posted: Wed Mar 5th, 2014 01:26 am
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Dean Steinhaus
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I have a question about Bronze or Brass.
Is one a little easier, to make the Gear Box and Cover out of than the other? Both Look Great to me.
Forgive my ignorance!

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 Posted: Wed Mar 5th, 2014 03:32 am
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Tony Clayton
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My only knowledge is bronze is stronger than brass and the color is more red.Dr Turner said his foundry was not set up to do pure brass casting. Here is a Link to his site to see some of his work.

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 Posted: Wed Mar 5th, 2014 07:51 am
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Paul D Graves
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I have made boxes out of brass and aluminum . Brass adds bling but its adds more effort to the machining process . According to the foundries I dealt with brass has less shrinkage than aluminum , but when cast in this shape the opposite was true . The aluminum case shrunk much less and required no internal removal of material to get all the parts in .Big time saver ,also it was much easier to located all the holes . I never had clearance problems using aluminum . Not as pretty but easier to machine and that's my 2 cent's worth

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 Posted: Wed Mar 5th, 2014 08:46 am
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Steve Stephens
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The gearboxes will all be painted black as original anyway so why sweat the material.  Oh, YOU won't paint it black?  I do like the aluminum gearbox that Paul make on my kidney as being a silvery metal per the original pot metal.

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 Posted: Wed Mar 5th, 2014 03:23 pm
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Jay Fontanella
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Steve Stephens wrote: The gearboxes will all be painted black as original anyway so why sweat the material.  Oh, YOU won't paint it black?  I do like the aluminum gearbox that Paul make on my kidney as being a silvery metal per the original pot metal.
I agree. I think the aluminum is closest looking to the pot metal and will be painted anyway. I think its the way to go,  especially if it is easier to work with than other metals (maybe that helps keep the cost down as well)

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 Posted: Wed Mar 5th, 2014 03:26 pm
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Jay Fontanella
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Paul D Graves wrote: Dean Steinhaus wrote: Thank you, Thank you,Thank YOU PAUL!
Let me know the cost and your address and I will send payment.
Hold your horses Dean . I will make a run of these and need as least 10 orders, a good aluminum caster , A solid case for copying , and most important my serious backlog of work done . I'm so buried I can't give you an est of when we can start .

Thanks Paul. I dont think you will have a problem getting 10 takers, I want 2 myself and there seems to be a bit of interest here in having them made. I am guessing more than 10 people are interested.

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 Posted: Wed Mar 5th, 2014 07:42 pm
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Steve Stephens
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I was kidding about the gearboxes all being painted black knowing that many love the bling factor of a bronze gearbox and it is pretty but it's not authentic if that matters to anyone.

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 Posted: Wed Mar 5th, 2014 08:08 pm
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Kim Frank
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I bought a gearbox from Paul several years ago. It was a drop in replacement and didn't require any additional machining to make it work....

Attached Image (viewed 863 times):

100_7930.JPG

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 Posted: Wed Mar 5th, 2014 08:53 pm
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George Durbin
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Kim Frank wrote: I bought a gearbox from Paul several years ago. It was a drop in replacement and didn't require any additional machining to make it work....

Hi Kim!
I might have missed his post... Didnt Paul say he would have 30 or 40 housings ready to go in a couple of weeks?...just asking...:P
geo...
ps...   gear sets too??

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 Posted: Wed Mar 5th, 2014 11:08 pm
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Kim Frank
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Actually George, I heard that you were going to step up and take care of the gear sets..........Are you still planning on doing the Glamour Shots booth at FF? I have you down for it, so bring your camera.

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 Posted: Wed Mar 5th, 2014 11:26 pm
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Paul D Graves
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George Durbin wrote: Kim Frank wrote: I bought a gearbox from Paul several years ago. It was a drop in replacement and didn't require any additional machining to make it work....

Hi Kim!
I might have missed his post... Didnt Paul say he would have 30 or 40 housings ready to go in a couple of weeks?...just asking...:P
geo...
ps...   gear sets too??
What have you been smokin George

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 Posted: Thu Mar 6th, 2014 01:37 am
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Dean Steinhaus
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Send me some of what ever your taking George!:imao

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 Posted: Thu Mar 6th, 2014 01:44 am
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Dean Steinhaus
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Kim,
If I gather up all of my wife's jewelry, can you melt it down and make me a Kidney out of GOLD??:thumbup

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 Posted: Thu Mar 6th, 2014 03:14 am
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Kim Frank
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I'm just getting a chuckle out of anyone wanting to put $500 or more into a $250 fan.....I've owned half a dozen complete Kidneys, along with some sans the gearbox. Those I chopped off the excess shaft tail, put on a BMY end bell and made pretty little stationaries out of them....Spend your wife's jewelry to buy a GE sidewinder...... 

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 Posted: Thu Mar 6th, 2014 07:42 am
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Dean Steinhaus
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OK KIm, Sidewinder.........You got one for sale??

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 Posted: Thu Mar 6th, 2014 08:29 am
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Jay Fontanella
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Kim Frank wrote: I'm just getting a chuckle out of anyone wanting to put $500 or more into a $250 fan.....I've owned half a dozen complete Kidneys, along with some sans the gearbox. Those I chopped off the excess shaft tail, put on a BMY end bell and made pretty little stationaries out of them....Spend your wife's jewelry to buy a GE sidewinder...... 
I will gladly take that nice kidney fan with Pauls aluminum housing off your hands for 250.00 Kim, where do I send the check .

Last edited on Thu Mar 6th, 2014 08:29 am by Jay Fontanella

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 Posted: Thu Mar 6th, 2014 08:33 am
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Dean Steinhaus
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Forget Jay's offer! I'll go 255.00!!...........:gears

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 Posted: Thu Mar 6th, 2014 12:57 pm
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George Durbin
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Kim Frank wrote: Actually George, I heard that you were going to step up and take care of the gear sets..........Are you still planning on doing the Glamour Shots booth at FF? I have you down for it, so bring your camera.

Hi Kim!
I will be happy to take glamour shots! I have a mini tent and it will be there!!
Geo...

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 Posted: Thu Mar 6th, 2014 04:16 pm
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Kim Frank
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Back in late 2010, I sold off my collection of GE tank motored fans. There were Jandus, FWEW, Diehl, Eck, Hunter, and all the BMY variants. I also sold my Sidewinders and C frame. I sold all four of the Kidneys, 2 Loophandles and 2 ring trunnions, examples in 12 and 16 inch. The Kidneys weren't real money makers, in the $300 -400 range. I could have parted them out and made more money. I would figure a 12 Kidney oscillator missing it's gear box is worth $150 -$200. Now buy a bronze or aluminum gear box ( I paid $250 for the aluminum and the same for the bronze one) so now you're in the $400 - 450 range. Go find the gears needed for your box ( I had an extra set that I sold for $250) and the pointer ($50 if you're lucky) and now you're in the $700 - 750 range. I wouldn't give anything near that for an original condition Kidney oscillator, but with so many new collectors coming on the scene, maybe I'm off the mark....

Attached Image (viewed 973 times):

100_7939.JPG

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 Posted: Thu Mar 6th, 2014 04:59 pm
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Tim Marks
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I've bought kidneys with gear boxes for $100 on several different occasions. If you keep your eyes open, you'll find them. A kidney repair is much easier than fabricating a new one from scratch.

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 Posted: Thu Mar 6th, 2014 05:06 pm
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George Durbin
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Tim Marks wrote: I've bought kidneys with gear boxes for $100 on several different occasions. If you keep your eyes open, you'll find them. A kidney repair is much easier than fabricating a new one from scratch.
I agree... having said that I do own 3 kidneys sans kidneys and gears... I've not had luck finding complete fans...   But still I wait for her!:dude:
Geo...

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 Posted: Thu Mar 6th, 2014 11:06 pm
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Michael Rathberger
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George Durbin wrote: Tim Marks wrote: I've bought kidneys with gear boxes for $100 on several different occasions. If you keep your eyes open, you'll find them. A kidney repair is much easier than fabricating a new one from scratch.
I agree... having said that I do own 3 kidneys sans kidneys and gears... I've not had luck finding complete fans...   But still I wait for her!:dude:
Geo...

I'm with Tim, they pop up now and then. I've been lucky to own 3 different complete fans over the years, all bought local and for less that $150.00. Maybe they made better boxes for the midwest, kind of like every Jandus fan I find has steel plated blades...

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