AFCA Forums > Antique Fan Collectors Association > Buy-Sell-Trade > Peerless Front oscillator on Ebay
AFCA Forums > Antique Fan Collectors Association > Buy-Sell-Trade > Peerless Front oscillator on Ebay | |
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Don Tener Guest 
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Not my fan but looks pretty nice to me? has a buy it now? http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Antique-Peerless-Electric-Oscillating-Fan-1909-Tab-Foot-WORKS-/291488807713?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43de163b21 |
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Tom Dreesen AFCA Member 
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What BIN? The seller thanks you for the free advertisement to the exact target group. |
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Don Tener Guest
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Yes I am hoping that someone here gets it. So posting it here helps out other members who might not see it. |
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Steve Stephens Guest 
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A lot of fan collectors do not like to see active auctions posted here. This fan is posted in the general eBay FAN CATEGORY and, as such, it is hard to miss seeing the fan with a simple perusal of the category which takes but a few minutes a day. It is already clearly posted on eBay and that is where collectors go to buy and see eBay fans. Posting auctions may help some who might not have seen an item but it also can hurt those collectors who are interested in bidding on the item. In general, the more bids/bidders on an item and/or the more attention called to the item, the higher the price, on average, will be. I know that when I am planning to bid on an item I cringe when someone posts it here feeling it might draw more attention and higher bids. Fortunately not too many do post active auctions. I feel it is a courtesy to other collectors to not post active auctions. |
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Marc Barnes Guest
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Thanks for sharing the listing here Don. I've never seen that model before -- awesome fan. I have a front oscillator (Colonial), but this one looks better (and older) than mine. |
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Charles Tedrick AFCA Member 
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Thats a really nice one. If I had the money it would be coming to my house for sure. I bet that paint would polish back to a mirror finish. |
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Don Tener Guest
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Steve Stephens wrote: Posting auctions may help some who might not have seen an item but it also can hurt those collectors who are interested in bidding on the item. In general, the more bids/bidders on an item and/or the more attention called to the item, the higher the price, on average, will be.I agree with you on regular auctions but this auction is a buy it now. So posting it here will not affect price. |
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Steve Stephens Guest
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No problem if there were a Buy it Now but there is no evidence of any BIN. He changed the DESCRIPTION but not price and there is not a completed auction or ended auction for this item on his pages. Maybe an honest mistake you made in thinking it was a BIN? |
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Don Tener Guest
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Steve Stephens wrote: No problem if there were a Buy it Now but there is no evidence of any BIN. He changed the DESCRIPTION but not price and there is not a completed auction or ended auction for this item on his pages. Maybe an honest mistake you made in thinking it was a BIN?Yes you are right. I did not see that he changed the auction. Look at the second post by Tom he saw the BIN to. Last edited on Thu Jun 11th, 2015 08:01 am by Don Tener |
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Fred Berry Guest 
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Sweet fan. The $500 is about what they go for, so if someone snipes it for that price then he'll get it. As this is an AC tabfoot, it will be centrifugal start, with the strange brass cup inside the motor for the three little centrifugal points to contact. Please forgive the large font, but as my eyesight is rapidly going away, it makes it easier for me to read. |
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Marc Barnes Guest
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Don Tener wrote: Steve Stephens wrote:Posting auctions may help some who might not have seen an item but it also can hurt those collectors who are interested in bidding on the item. In general, the more bids/bidders on an item and/or the more attention called to the item, the higher the price, on average, will be.I agree with you on regular auctions but this auction is a buy it now. So posting it here will not affect price. I don't think posting it here will affect the price even as an auction. Even if it does, no one will be harmed as a result. It was nice of you to share it. Thanks again. |
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Steve Stephens Guest
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Don Tener wrote: Steve Stephens wrote:Tom said "what BIN" in his post. There never was a BIN unless, possibly, it did have one to start with and he cancelled the auction and put it back up without a BIN. That might be a possibility.No problem if there were a Buy it Now but there is no evidence of any BIN. He changed the DESCRIPTION but not price and there is not a completed auction or ended auction for this item on his pages.Yes you are right. I did not see that he changed the auction. Look at the second post by Tom he saw the BIN to. Those are pretty nice fans, not too rare either. The early ones oscillate kind of fast but, after a year or two, they slowed the oscillation down. I don't think there is any pot metal in these Peerless and the Dayton model is identical other than the base tag. I don't know what they go for these days, I paid $225 in 2004 for my Colonial. Fred, did they make a DC front OSCILLATOR in this model? I have a non-oscillator DC which is a cool looking fan. |
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Tom Dreesen AFCA Member
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I didn't see a BIN. And if you don't think advertising affects prices, then a lot of people wasted $143 billion spent on advertising in 2010. |
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Steve Stephens Guest
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Marc Barnes wrote:
No harm done but it very well result in more bidders which can end up with the item finishing at a higher price. Just add one bidder who is serious and has the bucks and you'll most likely have a higher price.. Maybe no harm is done but there will be disappointments to some or all who plan to bid. Would you want to add a few more bidders to an item you wanted to win? Would you walk into the Fanfare Bourse and announce to the guys "hey, I just saw a neat fan on eBay, come on out of the Bourse to my room and let's all bid on it. NOBODY needs help in finding or seeing a fan on ebay's Electric Fan Category. They are all there listed in plain sight and anyone who does not see what's listed must not be interested. I can see posting about a buy it now fan since it can sell so quickly and why not let your friends or club members know about it? But, for the standard listings on eBay, notification of the auction of a desirable piece will almost always draw more interest and bids. And that is going to make some people disappointed that the auction was posted for more to see and possibly (probably) costing them more or loosing them the auction. Last edited on Thu Jun 11th, 2015 08:52 pm by Steve Stephens |
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Jim Kovar AFCA Member 
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Tom Dreesen wrote: What BIN? Don Tener wrote: Look at the second post by Tom he saw the BIN, too. Pretty sure Tom's response is a rhetorical question. He saweth not the BIN. |
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Don Tener Guest
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Jim Kovar wrote: Tom Dreesen wrote:Yes you are correct I was not thinking rightWhat BIN?  |
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Marc Barnes Guest
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Steve Stephens wrote: Marc Barnes wrote: "Would you want to add a few more bidders to an item you wanted to win?" I used to have more reservations about that than I do now, but now I'm happy to share auctions with fellow collectors, even if it means I will lose the auction. No big deal. I've done that several times before and will likely do it again. "Would you walk into the Fanfare Bourse and announce to the guys "hey, I just saw a neat fan on eBay, come on out of the Bourse to my room and let's all bid on it." I don't know what the Fanfare Bourse is, but I likely wouldn't invite everyone there to my room. However, I'd have no issue with telling everyone there about a great fan on eBay, even if it meant I wouldn't win it as a result. I'd do so with the hope that if I didn't win it, one of them would. I also share auctions with folks who I know specifically will have an interest in a given fan. "And that is going to make some people disappointed that the auction was posted for more to see and possibly (probably) costing them more or loosing them the auction." Even if it's likely that fans do go for higher prices when they are posted here, it really doesn't matter, does it? Members are permitted to share active auctions here. Some members appreciate that. Some members don't. Everyone has to make their own decision and life goes on. While some get upset when a live auction is shared here, others appreciate it. Some people get upset when I drive 70 down the highway and they want to go 90. Some people get upset at me when I disagree with them on issues at work. Can't make everybody happy. Just have to do what I think is best. And so does everyone else. And while we're on the subject of how sharing information can lead to some members paying more than they want for a fan, why do you share all of that excellent information about fans on your blog? I'd guess that information is extremely valuable to folks who are looking to sell fans and have no idea what they have. One visit to your blog, and they can get educated enough to realize they have a rare and valuable GE pancake fan. Then the fan goes on eBay for $1,000 instead of $150, and someone misses out on a deal. Why is there so much excellent information about antique fans on this forum? Same scenario as your blog -- a quick google search and someone who knows nothing suddenly knows much more and could even have a dollar amount for value as well. And if someone joins here and asks questions, there are so many helpful collectors who will help. Both of these scenarios I've described are not a stretch in any way. That is EXACTLY what happened when I started getting interested in antique fans and found a valuable 1897 pancake fan and researched it on your blog and on this forum. Your blog told me I had something quite rare and valuable, and the kind members on this forum actually gave me a dollar value. And I sold that beautiful fan to an AFCA member for less than it was worth (an AFCA member got a good deal), and am still to this day very happy that a great guy got a great fan that he REALLY wanted. And guess what happened next ... I joined the AFCA and became an avid fan collector. The AFCA mission succeeded, awareness of the hobby was elevated and the exchange of fans and useful information among its members continues. It is not the purpose of this organization or this forum to withhold useful information from its members, but to share it. I, for one, will continue to do so for as long as I am a member. By the way, I'm not attacking you about your blog. I think it is great and appreciate you sharing your knowledge with the rest of us. It is very helpful, and I mean that sincerely. Last edited on Thu Jun 11th, 2015 11:18 pm by Marc Barnes |
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Tom Dreesen AFCA Member
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Marc, I have yet to see you post an auction and say, "I am intending to bid on this and I want to let everyone know so you can bid me up." Sellers just love that free publicity that would cost them $40. Cha ching!! |
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Marc Barnes Guest
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Tom Dreesen wrote: Marc, Tom, I have and will continue to choose my own method and my own words for sharing auctions that I am interested in, or not interested in, with AFCA members. Perhaps as a potential member of the AFCA board, you would find some benefit in reading the AFCA mission and applying it to this issue. Call me crazy, but I think that may actually help. It is not the mission of the AFCA to withhold useful information from its members, but to share it. |
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Tom Dreesen AFCA Member
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Marc Barnes wrote: Tom Dreesen wrote:Marc, That's the beauty and Achilles heel of the English language. This should cover everything: http://www.ebay.com/sch/Electric-Fans-/4037/i.html |
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Marc Barnes Guest
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Tom Dreesen wrote: Marc Barnes wrote:Tom Dreesen wrote:Marc, Hey that's progress! Not terribly useful from my perspective, but still progress! |
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Gary Hagan Guest 
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[size=I encourage all that want a positive change in the manner this forum is operated to vote for Tom. He isn't afraid to speak his mind when things get out of line, he is helpful to those that are willing to learn, lastly he is a cool guy.] Avoiding and sweeping issues under the rug is no way to deal with conflict. Tom addresses issues directly and respectfully, my kinda guy. |
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Jeff Whitfield AFCA Member 
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Hey Mark FWIW, Not saying you're a slow driver or criticizing your skills behind the wheel, but if you're cruising through the peach state, it's probably not a good idea to block traffic ... http://www.wtvm.com/story/25929448/slow-poke-law Marc Barnes wrote:
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Tom Dreesen AFCA Member
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Gary Hagan wrote: [size=I encourage all that want a positive change in the manner this forum is operated to vote for Tom. He isn't afraid to speak his mind when things get out of line, he is helpful to those that are willing to learn, lastly he is a cool guy.] Too late Gary. Maybe next time. |
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Tom Dreesen AFCA Member
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Marc Barnes wrote: Tom Dreesen wrote:Marc Barnes wrote:Tom Dreesen wrote:Marc, You undercut those who do their OWN searching and drive prices up and primarily benefit the NONmember sellers. |
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William Dunlap AFCA Member 
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It's hard to imagine that all the serious collectors wouldn't peruse that ebay search on a regular basis. I know I do. What amazes me is that I have scooped some cool fans for good deals right out from under other collectors. I seems that sometimes the majority of collectors already have the fan in question and are not in the market for a duplicate. Calling attention to them won't motivate these guys to buy the fans. So, that leaves some fans for the rest of us. They're coming out of barns, estate sales, attics and basements by the thousands. They did make millions of these things after all. Next month there may well be another front oscillator in better shape for less money. Could happen. Cheers, Bill PS, the jellied canned ham fan is back on ebay at parts fan prices.Ham Fan B. Last edited on Fri Jun 12th, 2015 01:56 am by William Dunlap |
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Tom Dreesen AFCA Member
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"I(t) seems that sometimes the majority of collectors already have the fan in question and are not in the market for a duplicate. Calling attention to them won't motivate these guys to buy the fans." And this affects those who might want it how? Not all of those here regularly peruse eBay. Why should they? The good ones are posted ALL too often. |
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David Foster AFCA Member 
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William Dunlap wroteI seems that sometimes the majority of collectors already have the fan in question and are not in the market for a duplicate If the duplicate is a solid upgrade, I think the majority would be in the market for it. |
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Marc Barnes Guest
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Tom Dreesen wrote: Marc Barnes wrote:Tom Dreesen wrote:Marc Barnes wrote:Tom Dreesen wrote:Marc, The auction Don posted ended with zero bidders for the fan. Looks like all the hand-wringing over his sharing it here was pointless. The fan has been relisted with a starting bid of $200. http://www.ebay.com/itm/291494725895 |
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Mike Petree AFCA Member 
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"The auction Don posted ended with zero bidders for the fan. Looks like all the hand-wringing over his sharing it here was pointless. " The fan had zero bids because it was overpriced for it's condition and missing key parts. Whether you are right or wrong on posting ebay links, this auction result does not vindicate your position. |
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Marc Barnes Guest
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Mike Petree wrote: "The auction Don posted ended with zero bidders for the fan. Looks like all the hand-wringing over his sharing it here was pointless. " Exactly, I agree on both points. A "position" in this share/don't share eBay live auctions discussion can't be proven with only anecdotal evidence, as I've pointed out in the past. But that is all anyone has to work with, on both sides of the discussion about what happens when active auctions are posted here. And there are always a number of variables which affect every eBay listing. Whether the listing is shared here or not is simply one of many variables. But the discussion about what happens to the price of fans shared here isn't really the main point to me (and wasn't the main point of my post which you responded to), although I understand that is likely the main thing that matters to others. I don't need to vindicate the main points of my position, which are that sharing live eBay (and other) auctions here is absolutely fine, aligns very well with the AFCA mission, is permitted by the AFCA and brings zero harm to anyone, and members should feel free to share them without concern or fear. And in fact, some are very grateful when members do so. Mr. Tener shouldn't have been called out for sharing the listing here, no matter why he shared it (apparently thinking it was BIN) or what happened with the less-than-perfect fan. Most of this discussion is just noise which ignores and distracts from the main points of my position for the most part. Last edited on Thu Jun 18th, 2015 01:18 am by Marc Barnes |
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Don Tener Guest
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Hurry Hurry Hurry do not miss the relist http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Antique-Peerless-Electric-Oscillating-Fan-1909-Tab-Foot-WORKS-/291494725895?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43de708907 |
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Tom Dreesen AFCA Member
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Marc Barnes wrote: Mike Petree wrote:"The auction Don posted ended with zero bidders for the fan. Looks like all the hand-wringing over his sharing it here was pointless. " You cannot vindicate your position. There is a reason appraisers use the caveat "a well publicized auction". You simply cannot go against decades of auction results by calling them anecdotal. |
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Don Tener Guest
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Tom Dreesen wrote: Marc Barnes wrote:All of the negative comments have made up my mind for me. I have been a member sense 2012 and I have only posted 2 or 3 ebay listing's in all of that time up till now. If i see it on ebay and think it could be rare (or a good deal), I will be posting it here and all of the people that do not like it can check the forum rule's.Mike Petree wrote:"The auction Don posted ended with zero bidders for the fan. Looks like all the hand-wringing over his sharing it here was pointless. " Last edited on Thu Jun 18th, 2015 03:33 am by Don Tener |
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Tom Dreesen AFCA Member
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Don Tener wrote: Tom Dreesen wrote:Marc Barnes wrote:All of the negative comments have made up my mind for me. I have been a member sense 2012 and I have only posted 2 or 3 ebay listing's in all of that time up till now. If i see it on ebay and think it could be rare (or a good deal), I will be posting it here and all of the people that do not like it can check the forum rule's.Mike Petree wrote:"The auction Don posted ended with zero bidders for the fan. Looks like all the hand-wringing over his sharing it here was pointless. " Nonmember sellers around the world thank you and think you are da bomb! |
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Steve Stephens Guest
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Don Tener wrote:
It is not a matter of what the forum rules do or don't permit regarding posting live auctions but I see it as being courteous to those who might have an interest in bidding on such auctions by not posting them until they are over. There is a link I will post that will find members almost all fans listed on eBay while the auction is active and this is where I find my fans I buy or have bought on eBay. There is no need to post individual auctions. http://www.ebay.com/sch/Electric-Fans-/4037/i.html?_sop=10 |
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Gary Hagan Guest
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Some people can't handle being called on their nonsense. They get defensive, get philisophical, ponder the meaning of life, quote Shakespeare... It doesn't matter because at the end of the day I've yet to see someone, anyone, post about being thankful for these postings. I'm seeing that a lot of folks agree it is "manners" that are being discussed. It's not against the law to pass gas in a crowded elevator but you will most certainly get dirty looks! |
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Don Tener Guest
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Gary Hagan wrote: Some people can't handle being called on their nonsense. They get defensive, get philisophical, ponder the meaning of life, quote Shakespeare... It doesn't matter because at the end of the day I've yet to see someone, anyone, post about being thankful for these postings. I'm seeing that a lot of folks agree it is "manners" that are being discussed. It's not against the law to pass gas in a crowded elevator but you will most certainly get dirty looks!And you are not being philosophical? also the people that are upset here are not worried about manners. There worried about there wallet! they are upset that someone might post a fan that they were watching and it might cost them more money. Like I said not manners being talked about here it's Dollars plane and simple. Last edited on Sun Jun 21st, 2015 02:27 pm by Don Tener |
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Marc Barnes Guest
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Tom Dreesen wrote: Marc Barnes wrote:Mike Petree wrote:"The auction Don posted ended with zero bidders for the fan. Looks like all the hand-wringing over his sharing it here was pointless. " I didn't realize you had decades of data which shows how fans on eBay go for so much more money than they would have if they hadn't been shared on the AFCA forum. Please, share that verifiable data with everyone here. You don't need to provide decades of data -- five years is plenty. I'm still waiting, and I'm sure others would enjoy seeing it as well. I won't hold my breath. You'll have to start gathering data from auctions OTHER than this listing that you jumped down Don's throat for posting, because this fan had no bids, at all. None. Zero. And still, that's just noise to distract from the easily proven facts -- sharing live eBay (and other) auctions here is absolutely fine, aligns very well with the AFCA mission, is permitted by the AFCA and brings zero harm to anyone, and members should feel free to share them without fear or concern. No doubt many members won't for various reasons. At least a few probably won't because they don't feel like facing the posse just to share a fan listing with fellow members. |
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Marc Barnes Guest
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Steve Stephens wrote: Don Tener wrote: Courtesy is exactly the reason I started sharing auctions on this site. Several members have told me that they appreciate it as well. As a side note, I do appreciate that you are respectful and courteous in your "dissent" Steve. |
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Marc Barnes Guest
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Don Tener wrote:All of the negative comments have made up my mind for me. I have been a member sense 2012 and I have only posted 2 or 3 ebay listing's in all of that time up till now. If i see it on ebay and think it could be rare (or a good deal), I will be posting it here and all of the people that do not like it can check the forum rule's. A different response to the negative comments may work better. Just sayin ... flooding BST with eBay auctions becomes an issue that the moderators/AFCA board will likely be forced to address, and that's likely exactly what those who are making the negative comments would like to have happen. Also, posting auctions en masse doesn't really seem to be what BST is for ... I can see sharing them ocassionally adding value (some other members agree), but flooding it just seems to be a sure way to reduce its value to members. I understand your response, and what you do is certainly your choice. My apologies for poking the hornet's nest and reviving the thread. Probably should have let this one go. Lol Last edited on Thu Jun 18th, 2015 12:07 pm by Marc Barnes |
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Steve Stephens Guest
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Please don't clutter up the BST forum with eBay auctions that are not yours. That causes members sale fan or other posts to sink out of sight. Anyone can easily find eBay fans auctions; just go to eBay and look in the fan category. |
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Gary Hagan Guest
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Marc Barnes wrote: Tom Dreesen wrote:Marc,Marc Barnes wrote:Mike Petree wrote:"The auction Don posted ended with zero bidders for the fan. Looks like all the hand-wringing over his sharing it here was pointless. " There have been many scientific studies done to prove what we are all saying. One was done in sweden regarding real estate auctions over a sample of 512 auctions. Read here. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&ei=NTeCVZ6hN4ajNvK6gqgP&url=http://www.umac.mo/fba/irer/papers/forthcoming/IR120207%2520Bidder%2520on%2520Condo%2520in%2520Stockholme%2520(Hungria-Gunnelin).pdf&ved=0CCAQFjAA&usg=AFQjCNFmAAEd_9vWTppt5iPMG96OU8TfDw I am not trying to be difficult but it can be proven mathematically through probability distribution functions. I would go to the trouble of posting the formulas derived by some of the brightest minds in the country but I doubt even that would be enough to change your opinion. You don't believe in global warming either I'm guessing. |
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Royal Norman AFCA Member 
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Changes |
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Ron Wallace Guest 
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I own a Peerless DC FO...........so they did make them. |
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Jesse Sanders AFCA Member
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For what it's worth as a new member(was guest for a little over a year before joining), I would agree that for more common models of course posting every Ebay listing gets much too cluttered. I check the BST more often than I check Ebay as they are usually out of my price range on Ebay, so I don't have a lot of skin in the game as far as higher or lower prices go there, I prefer local auctions. However, I also appreciate it when members who know more about the rarity of certain fans I'm still not even familiar with post something that stands out to them even if it isn't their own listing, I can usually safely assume it's worth looking at and if the price is decent enough for them to have posted and made a comment on this unfamiliar fan regarding the fairness or exaggeration of said price, I may bid or buy it now accordingly. For the record: I saw the BIN for the original fan in question, there was one when it was initially posted. BIN's of rare fans that more knowledgeable members don't want for themselves, seem fair to post here for all to judge for themselves. Basically, thank you for posting the fan - cool fan - still out of my price range even at $280 or whatever it went for  |
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Lane Shirey AFCA Member 
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I'm not understanding why a 1+ year old thread about an eBay posting is being rekindled. |
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Kevin R. Braswell Guest 
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Old Sports, We all Have different opinions. Some like our fans restored, others prefer them not restored. We Will never agree on everything. Let's all Just get back to what we come Here for. The Love of Fans. The enjoyment of conversations about them. We should focus less on what separates us and more on what unites us. just my thoughts. Best regards to all. Last edited on Sat Jan 21st, 2017 11:39 pm by Kevin R. Braswell |
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