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Bad eBay Seller warning...  Rate Topic 
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 Posted: Fri Dec 21st, 2018 11:59 pm
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David Allen
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Word of caution - Don't do business with eBay seller swamper22 aka Steve Swanchak. Reneged on a won auction already paid for, after I had arranged shipping for the item.

The item in question was a Davidson exhaust fan.

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 Posted: Sat Dec 22nd, 2018 03:26 am
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Tom Dreesen
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Seems an AFCA member bought it out from under you.  Reprehensible behavior for sure.

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 Posted: Sat Dec 22nd, 2018 03:35 am
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Don Tener
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Tom Dreesen wrote: Seems an AFCA member bought it out from under you.  Reprehensible behavior for sure.Yea that is not the first time someone here has done that. I will never post about a buy unless it is "In The Mail". Then no one can snake it out from under you.

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 Posted: Sat Dec 22nd, 2018 03:36 am
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David Allen
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Tom Dreesen wrote: Seems an AFCA member bought it out from under you.  Reprehensible behavior for sure.

Yes, it is very poor behavior; but when the seller lies to all parties involved it becomes a very grey area. I do know who bought it, however I don't think this individual knew who had already paid for the fan.

Last edited on Tue Dec 25th, 2018 01:23 pm by David Allen

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 Posted: Sat Dec 22nd, 2018 03:38 am
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David Allen
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Don Tener wrote: Tom Dreesen wrote: Seems an AFCA member bought it out from under you.  Reprehensible behavior for sure.Yea that is not the first time someone here has done that. I will never post about a buy unless it is "In The Mail". Then no one can snake it out from under you.



I hadn't mentioned it anywhere openly because you are absolutely right about that.

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 Posted: Sat Dec 22nd, 2018 03:45 am
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Tom Dreesen
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David Allen wrote: Don Tener wrote: Tom Dreesen wrote: Seems an AFCA member bought it out from under you.  Reprehensible behavior for sure.Yea that is not the first time someone here has done that. I will never post about a buy unless it is "In The Mail". Then no one can snake it out from under you.



I hadn't mentioned it anywhere openly because you are absolutely right about that.

We are a relatively small group and word gets around.  I have never dealt with the person and now I never will.

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 Posted: Sun Dec 23rd, 2018 04:21 pm
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David Allen
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Tom Dreesen wrote: David Allen wrote: Don Tener wrote: Tom Dreesen wrote: Seems an AFCA member bought it out from under you.  Reprehensible behavior for sure.Yea that is not the first time someone here has done that. I will never post about a buy unless it is "In The Mail". Then no one can snake it out from under you.







I hadn't mentioned it anywhere openly because you are absolutely right about that.



We are a relatively small group and word gets around.  I have never dealt with the person and now I never will.


Yes this is true. I left the eBay seller with that very warning as well.

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 Posted: Sun Dec 23rd, 2018 06:30 pm
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Don Tener
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David Allen wrote: Tom Dreesen wrote: David Allen wrote: Don Tener wrote: Tom Dreesen wrote: Seems an AFCA member bought it out from under you.  Reprehensible behavior for sure.Yea that is not the first time someone here has done that. I will never post about a buy unless it is "In The Mail". Then no one can snake it out from under you.







I hadn't mentioned it anywhere openly because you are absolutely right about that.



We are a relatively small group and word gets around.  I have never dealt with the person and now I never will.


Yes this is true. I left the eBay seller with that very warning as well.
If I where you I would have left him a bad feedback!

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 Posted: Sun Dec 23rd, 2018 08:25 pm
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David Allen
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Don Tener wrote:

If I where you I would have left him a bad feedback!


Hi Don. It's interesting how this works. With eBay, apparently, when a seller cancels a completed / paid sale; they are charged the final value fee by eBay; as well as having their seller rating impacted negatively. While a buyer is unable to leave feedback on a seller-canceled sale; it seems that eBay's system does count it against them none the less.

Aside from that, and telling our fellows to be warned about them - there's not much I could do.

I didn't need that fan, and in fact need to complete other projects instead. However, I'm sure that most of AFCA members would have enjoyed watching it get restored.

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 Posted: Sun Dec 23rd, 2018 09:23 pm
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Duane Burright
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That just sucks, and yeah it seems that we have some snakes in the grass here.

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 Posted: Tue Dec 25th, 2018 01:29 pm
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David Allen
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Duane Burright wrote: That just sucks, and yeah it seems that we have some snakes in the grass here.








One final update on this.



Had a discussion with the other member who tried to buy this fan.  The seller told him differently fabricated stories than he told me. Seller reneged on this deal as well; stating that "he became aware the fan is extremely rare" and has second thoughts about selling it.



So again this is more of a greedy, flaky, and dishonest seller issue than anything else.


Look for it to turn up at "ludicrous" prices in all the usual places in the future.






Last edited on Tue Dec 25th, 2018 01:31 pm by David Allen

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 Posted: Tue Dec 25th, 2018 05:37 pm
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Don Tener
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David Allen wrote: Duane Burright wrote: That just sucks, and yeah it seems that we have some snakes in the grass here.








One final update on this.



Had a discussion with the other member who tried to buy this fan.  The seller told him differently fabricated stories than he told me. Seller reneged on this deal as well; stating that "he became aware the fan is extremely rare" and has second thoughts about selling it.



So again this is more of a greedy, flaky, and dishonest seller issue than anything else.


Look for it to turn up at "ludicrous" prices in all the usual places in the future.






I still blame the person here who tried to buy it out from under you. If he would have minded his own business the seller would never gotten the idea is was "Rare"!

      So it is the fault of that member that tried to screw you. His bad behavior that lost you that fan and there is no getting around that.

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 Posted: Tue Dec 25th, 2018 10:05 pm
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Andrew Block
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I will say, having been following this on all sides, that the member who tried to buy the fan was not trying to screw David particularly, he just offered twice as much money and Mr. Seller didn't want the hassle of trying to ship it. Now that attention was brought due to the first renege, there must have been other offers made and Mr. Seller got the idea it was "rare" and valuable and he's holding out for more cash.

Pretty scummy way to do business but it was nothing personal against David IMO; David was the only truly stand-up guy (as he usually is) in the whole mess of transactions.

Last edited on Wed Dec 26th, 2018 01:35 am by Andrew Block

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 Posted: Tue Dec 25th, 2018 10:24 pm
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Steve Stephens
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Will someone please pm me the auction number of this fan in question or what the fan was?   It is not listed under the seller's name completed listings.   Thank you.

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 Posted: Wed Dec 26th, 2018 12:07 am
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David Allen
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Steve Stephens wrote: Will someone please pm me the auction number of this fan in question or what the fan was?   It is not listed under the seller's name completed listings.   Thank you.
E-mail sent.

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 Posted: Wed Dec 26th, 2018 07:18 am
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Tom Dreesen
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Anyone contacting a seller after the closed sale as a "backup offer" twice the selling price is clearly trying to undermine the deal.  

The fact that it was an AFCA member gives the whole of AFCA a bad name.


If you want the fan, bid on it.


If you missed the auction, live with it.

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 Posted: Wed Dec 26th, 2018 08:44 pm
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Austin Ko
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Ebay seller was in the wrong. No ebay seller should be ending auctions early for any offer. It hurts business and bars people from bidding on your stuff in the future as they dont want to deal with your poor business practices. Also when people send their “best offer” to end the auction early its 99% of the time lower then what the item will sell for as an auction. I actually ignore these people or offer the item for their offer plus a 400 dollar end the auction early fee to mess with them. Also I am pretty sure you can leave a neg for a transaction HE canceled because you have to agree to the cancelation. I would take a closer look. He definetly needs a neg. I’ll probably be blocking the true buyer as well because I am sure he is like the other ebay vultures. 

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 Posted: Wed Dec 26th, 2018 09:19 pm
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Lawrence Smith
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ebay item# 352541659155. 

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 Posted: Thu Dec 27th, 2018 05:59 am
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Don Tener
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Austin Ko wrote: Ebay seller was in the wrong. No ebay seller should be ending auctions early for any offer. It hurts business and bars people from bidding on your stuff in the future as they dont want to deal with your poor business practices. Also when people send their “best offer” to end the auction early its 99% of the time lower then what the item will sell for as an auction. I actually ignore these people or offer the item for their offer plus a 400 dollar end the auction early fee to mess with them. Also I am pretty sure you can leave a neg for a transaction HE canceled because you have to agree to the cancelation. I would take a closer look. He definetly needs a neg. I’ll probably be blocking the true buyer as well because I am sure he is like the other ebay vultures. The seller did not end it early. He refunded Davids money because someone contacted him after the auction was over, before it was in the mail, and offered him more money.

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 Posted: Thu Dec 27th, 2018 09:10 am
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Jim Kovar
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Tom Dreesen wrote: Anyone contacting a seller after the closed sale as a "backup offer" twice the selling price is clearly trying to undermine the deal.  

The fact that it was an AFCA member gives the whole of AFCA a bad name.


If you want the fan, bid on it.


If you missed the auction, live with it.

In 100% agreement with


what Tom wrote.




Heck!, the auction was over!


David was the "high bid,..."


AKA the "winner" and paid


the hammer price.




So, why isn't the fan David's?




Two are to be blamed.


The first is the post- auction


"renege" instigator.


The second is the seller for


not following through on


the auction terms.

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 Posted: Thu Dec 27th, 2018 09:46 am
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Steve Cunningham
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As I have said many times, EBay auctions end early for one reason, greed. The seller is offered more than they think it will bring. The bidder wants to buy it for less than he thinks it’s worth

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 Posted: Thu Dec 27th, 2018 11:04 am
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Jim Kovar
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Steve Cunningham wrote: As I have said many times, eBay auctions end early for one reason, greed.
This auction was not ended early.

Steve Cunningham wrote:...seller [reneger]...  ...bidder [post-auction instigating interloper]...

Scum,...    both!

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 Posted: Thu Dec 27th, 2018 05:10 pm
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Don Tener
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Jim Kovar wrote: Steve Cunningham wrote: As I have said many times, eBay auctions end early for one reason, greed.
This auction was not ended early.

Steve Cunningham wrote:...seller [reneger]...  ...bidder [post-auction instigating interloper]...

Scum,...    both!
Totally agree Jim.

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 Posted: Thu Dec 27th, 2018 07:40 pm
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Andrew Block
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Well this came to bite the interloper in the posterior. It seems that the attention brought by interloping caused Mr. Greedy Seller to renege on THAT deal for the price being too low as the fan is "rare" and "valuable" thanks to outside parties now taking an interest.

Supposedly another AFCA member is now the owner. We shall see.

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 Posted: Fri Dec 28th, 2018 12:09 am
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Jeff Whitfield
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I don't know the parties involved nor do I care for the exhaust fan in the ad. That fan is valuable? How?
The fan looks to me like it was pulled out of the men's restroom of a decaying bus station. I wouldn't give more than $20.00, at best.  I would also want a little something extra with that fan.

But ... Beauty, I suppose, is in the eye of the beholder.



Last edited on Fri Dec 28th, 2018 12:30 am by Jeff Whitfield

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 Posted: Fri Dec 28th, 2018 12:16 am
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Austin Ko
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Don Tener wrote: Austin Ko wrote: Ebay seller was in the wrong. No ebay seller should be ending auctions early for any offer. It hurts business and bars people from bidding on your stuff in the future as they dont want to deal with your poor business practices. Also when people send their “best offer” to end the auction early its 99% of the time lower then what the item will sell for as an auction. I actually ignore these people or offer the item for their offer plus a 400 dollar end the auction early fee to mess with them. Also I am pretty sure you can leave a neg for a transaction HE canceled because you have to agree to the cancelation. I would take a closer look. He definetly needs a neg. I’ll probably be blocking the true buyer as well because I am sure he is like the other ebay vultures. The seller did not end it early. He refunded Davids money because someone contacted him after the auction was over, before it was in the mail, and offered him more money.
Then David should be able to leave a big fat negative for that sale. I would have contacted ebay over this. The problem new or dumb sellers dont realize is that ebay does not care at all about the seller. They only care about the customer and will side with them 100% of the time wether they are in the wrong or right. I would contact them about this because you can actually be booted off of ebay for this or at least suspended. 

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 Posted: Fri Dec 28th, 2018 01:48 am
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Matthew Albach
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This happened 2 times different AFCA members This will not keep people
Some will flee of this I think some policy’s need to be placed in to keep the peace between collectors from getting item stolen underneath . Tom is absolutely correct will give AFCA a bad name and feel lack of trust.

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 Posted: Fri Dec 28th, 2018 03:59 pm
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Michael Rathberger
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Matthew Albach wrote: This happened 2 times different AFCA members This will not keep people
Some will flee of this I think some policy’s need to be placed in to keep the peace between collectors from getting item stolen underneath . Tom is absolutely correct will give AFCA a bad name and feel lack of trust.


My opinion is it has nothing to do with the AFCA -- yet, nor does it tarnish the organization -- yet. It has only to do with a couple of "members" which from reading the posts I gather at least one person knows who they are.


 


So, if it's that big of a deal -- it's been going on forever BTW -- why harbor the individuals and allow this to become about the AFCA when it's in fact about 2 people in the AFCA who can be summarliy dismissed at the boards discretion?

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 Posted: Fri Dec 28th, 2018 05:53 pm
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Don Tener
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Michael Rathberger wrote: Matthew Albach wrote: This happened 2 times different AFCA members This will not keep people
Some will flee of this I think some policy’s need to be placed in to keep the peace between collectors from getting item stolen underneath . Tom is absolutely correct will give AFCA a bad name and feel lack of trust.


My opinion is it has nothing to do with the AFCA -- yet, nor does it tarnish the organization -- yet. It has only to do with a couple of "members" which from reading the posts I gather at least one person knows who they are.

 

So, if it's that big of a deal -- it's been going on forever BTW -- why harbor the individuals and allow this to become about the AFCA when it's in fact about 2 people in the AFCA who can be summarily dismissed at the boards discretion?

I totally agree. I know who one of the members is. But I do not know who did this particular action. But THEY know who they are.  Maybe the AFCA board should put a rule in place that prohibits this type of action. and if proven, then that member would be banned.  I like that idea!

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 Posted: Fri Dec 28th, 2018 10:28 pm
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George Durbin
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Don Tener wrote: Michael Rathberger wrote: Matthew Albach wrote: This happened 2 times different AFCA members This will not keep people
Some will flee of this I think some policy’s need to be placed in to keep the peace between collectors from getting item stolen underneath . Tom is absolutely correct will give AFCA a bad name and feel lack of trust.


My opinion is it has nothing to do with the AFCA -- yet, nor does it tarnish the organization -- yet. It has only to do with a couple of "members" which from reading the posts I gather at least one person knows who they are.

 

So, if it's that big of a deal -- it's been going on forever BTW -- why harbor the individuals and allow this to become about the AFCA when it's in fact about 2 people in the AFCA who can be summarily dismissed at the boards discretion?

I totally agree. I know who one of the members is. But I do not know who did this particular action. But THEY know who they are.  Maybe the AFCA board should put a rule in place that prohibits this type of action. and if proven, then that member would be banned.  I like that idea!

While I agree completely with what you say, it would be very unmanageable... Our board works hard at keeping things simple on this forum... As long as names are not mentioned here, we seem to do a good job of outing the wrong doers through pm's  and fan meets... So we are wary of those doing these things...

Geo...

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 Posted: Fri Dec 28th, 2018 11:58 pm
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Steve Cunningham
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When the AFCA set up Ethics early on, we made the decision not to be involved in any auctions. People then got upset if another member was bidding on an Ebay auction of an item they wanted.

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 Posted: Sat Dec 29th, 2018 02:03 am
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Matthew Albach
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what I find troubling is that members who share there excitement. With other members what they  won and want all the information on a fan . Then suddenly they lost that fan to a fellow member went underneath to get what that other member had that’s just plan evil . Can you imagine the anger , hurt . What that member went thru they trusted this site for information instead got it taken away . If nothing is done there will be no sharing on fans hate to see that happen. I have meet some wonderful people on the  AFCA want it to stay that way. But we must protect each other and this club from this type of behavior.

Last edited on Sat Dec 29th, 2018 04:00 am by Matthew Albach

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 Posted: Sat Dec 29th, 2018 03:53 am
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Lawrence Smith
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George & Steve, I take exception to the comment this board does a good job of outing the wrong doers, one recent case the board chose to delete the whole thing saying it was not an AFCA issue, These 2 would never have met, if this AFCA board did not promote the background story on the supposed restorer. I do not agree with the person missing $$ & fans that giving so freely was wise. But saying the AFCA had nothing to do with it is dead wrong(deleting the story also gives false security on this site). As for the another personal incident,  that snake is quite active & supposedly a respected AFCA member here & is all over the AFCA facebook account- -so I'm not sure how he is being outed by the AFCA.    

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 Posted: Sat Dec 29th, 2018 05:49 am
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George Durbin
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Hi Lawrence!
By "we" I mean the members of the AFCA... The board has nothing in this and "outs" no one... The board does a great job within what they control... The board has no rules for Ebay other than how sales are posted on the forum... Our ethics guy is Bill Fanum and there is only so much he can do... There are elections coming up and if you think you can make a difference please run for board... You will be welcomed as all are who get the votes...
Geo...

Last edited on Sat Dec 29th, 2018 05:52 am by George Durbin

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 Posted: Sat Dec 29th, 2018 10:00 pm
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Lawrence Smith
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Thanks George, at this time I do not think I would have the correct temperament for that position. Also 2019 I'm going to try & evaluate my collection possibly thinning some out. I have too many & I hate looking at  nice fans in a garage setting.    

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 Posted: Sat Dec 29th, 2018 10:26 pm
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George Durbin
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Lawrence Smith wrote: Thanks George, at this time I do not think I would have the correct temperament for that position. Also 2019 I'm going to try & evaluate my collection possibly thinning some out. I have too many & I hate looking at  nice fans in a garage setting.    
Lawrence you can talk to me or any other board member any time you have concerns or questions... I may not have the answer you need but I will try and get it for you... As VP I do not get to vote nor does the President... We do have input in the discussions before things are voted on... Like the government it takes a while to make things happen and that is on purpose so we dont jump into things until they are thought out a bit... I watched President Eisenhower in a speach say getting things down in government is like 2 elephants making love... Its done on a high level, with lots of grunting and groaning and it takes 2 years to get results...

Geo...

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 Posted: Sun Dec 30th, 2018 01:39 am
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Bill Arfmann
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:clap:I like Ike

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 Posted: Sun Dec 30th, 2018 03:02 am
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Tom Dreesen
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I will probably throw my hat in the ring for Board again.  That said, this is nothing that the AFCA can have any direct control over.  This was not a transaction between 2 AFCA members.  

There is only so much AFCA can do.  We cannot control the dealings of members outside of our BST page.


Can we kick out members for bad practices?  Maybe.  I would tentatively say yes.   

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 Posted: Tue Jan 15th, 2019 07:39 pm
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David Allen
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So, the seller now thinks he's going to get $1200 for this fan, without putting any effort or money into it.  People never cease to amaze me with their small mindedness.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/352568732880



Ps - notice the red text "A seller you've bought from" on the screenshot? That's from the sale I won that he reneged on.



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 Posted: Tue Jan 15th, 2019 07:52 pm
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Edward Kowalke
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 have you left appropriate feedback for this seller?

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