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David Allen Guest
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Word of caution - Don't do business with eBay seller swamper22 aka Steve Swanchak. Reneged on a won auction already paid for, after I had arranged shipping for the item. The item in question was a Davidson exhaust fan. |
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Tom Dreesen AFCA Member 
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Seems an AFCA member bought it out from under you. Reprehensible behavior for sure. |
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Don Tener Guest 
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Tom Dreesen wrote: Seems an AFCA member bought it out from under you. Reprehensible behavior for sure.Yea that is not the first time someone here has done that. I will never post about a buy unless it is "In The Mail". Then no one can snake it out from under you. |
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David Allen Guest
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Tom Dreesen wrote: Seems an AFCA member bought it out from under you. Reprehensible behavior for sure. Yes, it is very poor behavior; but when the seller lies to all parties involved it becomes a very grey area. I do know who bought it, however I don't think this individual knew who had already paid for the fan. Last edited on Tue Dec 25th, 2018 12:23 pm by David Allen |
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David Allen Guest
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Don Tener wrote: Tom Dreesen wrote:Seems an AFCA member bought it out from under you. Reprehensible behavior for sure.Yea that is not the first time someone here has done that. I will never post about a buy unless it is "In The Mail". Then no one can snake it out from under you. I hadn't mentioned it anywhere openly because you are absolutely right about that. |
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Tom Dreesen AFCA Member
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David Allen wrote: Don Tener wrote:Tom Dreesen wrote:Seems an AFCA member bought it out from under you. Reprehensible behavior for sure.Yea that is not the first time someone here has done that. I will never post about a buy unless it is "In The Mail". Then no one can snake it out from under you. We are a relatively small group and word gets around. I have never dealt with the person and now I never will. |
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David Allen Guest
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Tom Dreesen wrote: David Allen wrote:Don Tener wrote:Tom Dreesen wrote:Seems an AFCA member bought it out from under you. Reprehensible behavior for sure.Yea that is not the first time someone here has done that. I will never post about a buy unless it is "In The Mail". Then no one can snake it out from under you. Yes this is true. I left the eBay seller with that very warning as well. |
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Don Tener Guest
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David Allen wrote: Tom Dreesen wrote:If I where you I would have left him a bad feedback!David Allen wrote:Don Tener wrote:Tom Dreesen wrote:Seems an AFCA member bought it out from under you. Reprehensible behavior for sure.Yea that is not the first time someone here has done that. I will never post about a buy unless it is "In The Mail". Then no one can snake it out from under you. |
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David Allen Guest
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Don Tener wrote:
Hi Don. It's interesting how this works. With eBay, apparently, when a seller cancels a completed / paid sale; they are charged the final value fee by eBay; as well as having their seller rating impacted negatively. While a buyer is unable to leave feedback on a seller-canceled sale; it seems that eBay's system does count it against them none the less. Aside from that, and telling our fellows to be warned about them - there's not much I could do. I didn't need that fan, and in fact need to complete other projects instead. However, I'm sure that most of AFCA members would have enjoyed watching it get restored. |
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Duane Burright AFCA Member 
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That just sucks, and yeah it seems that we have some snakes in the grass here. |
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David Allen Guest
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Duane Burright wrote: That just sucks, and yeah it seems that we have some snakes in the grass here. One final update on this. Had a discussion with the other member who tried to buy this fan. The seller told him differently fabricated stories than he told me. Seller reneged on this deal as well; stating that "he became aware the fan is extremely rare" and has second thoughts about selling it. So again this is more of a greedy, flaky, and dishonest seller issue than anything else. Look for it to turn up at "ludicrous" prices in all the usual places in the future. Last edited on Tue Dec 25th, 2018 12:31 pm by David Allen |
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Don Tener Guest
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David Allen wrote: Duane Burright wrote:That just sucks, and yeah it seems that we have some snakes in the grass here. I still blame the person here who tried to buy it out from under you. If he would have minded his own business the seller would never gotten the idea is was "Rare"! So it is the fault of that member that tried to screw you. His bad behavior that lost you that fan and there is no getting around that. |
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Andrew Block Guest
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I will say, having been following this on all sides, that the member who tried to buy the fan was not trying to screw David particularly, he just offered twice as much money and Mr. Seller didn't want the hassle of trying to ship it. Now that attention was brought due to the first renege, there must have been other offers made and Mr. Seller got the idea it was "rare" and valuable and he's holding out for more cash. Pretty scummy way to do business but it was nothing personal against David IMO; David was the only truly stand-up guy (as he usually is) in the whole mess of transactions. Last edited on Wed Dec 26th, 2018 12:35 am by Andrew Block |
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Steve Stephens Guest 
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Will someone please pm me the auction number of this fan in question or what the fan was? It is not listed under the seller's name completed listings. Thank you. |
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David Allen Guest
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Steve Stephens wrote: Will someone please pm me the auction number of this fan in question or what the fan was? It is not listed under the seller's name completed listings. Thank you. E-mail sent. |
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Tom Dreesen AFCA Member
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Anyone contacting a seller after the closed sale as a "backup offer" twice the selling price is clearly trying to undermine the deal. The fact that it was an AFCA member gives the whole of AFCA a bad name. If you want the fan, bid on it. If you missed the auction, live with it. |
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Austin Ko Guest 
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Ebay seller was in the wrong. No ebay seller should be ending auctions early for any offer. It hurts business and bars people from bidding on your stuff in the future as they dont want to deal with your poor business practices. Also when people send their “best offer” to end the auction early its 99% of the time lower then what the item will sell for as an auction. I actually ignore these people or offer the item for their offer plus a 400 dollar end the auction early fee to mess with them. Also I am pretty sure you can leave a neg for a transaction HE canceled because you have to agree to the cancelation. I would take a closer look. He definetly needs a neg. I’ll probably be blocking the true buyer as well because I am sure he is like the other ebay vultures. |
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Lawrence Smith AFCA Member 
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ebay item# 352541659155. |
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Don Tener Guest
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Austin Ko wrote: Ebay seller was in the wrong. No ebay seller should be ending auctions early for any offer. It hurts business and bars people from bidding on your stuff in the future as they dont want to deal with your poor business practices. Also when people send their “best offer” to end the auction early its 99% of the time lower then what the item will sell for as an auction. I actually ignore these people or offer the item for their offer plus a 400 dollar end the auction early fee to mess with them. Also I am pretty sure you can leave a neg for a transaction HE canceled because you have to agree to the cancelation. I would take a closer look. He definetly needs a neg. I’ll probably be blocking the true buyer as well because I am sure he is like the other ebay vultures.The seller did not end it early. He refunded Davids money because someone contacted him after the auction was over, before it was in the mail, and offered him more money. |
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Jim Kovar AFCA Member 
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Tom Dreesen wrote: Anyone contacting a seller after the closed sale as a "backup offer" twice the selling price is clearly trying to undermine the deal. In 100% agreement with what Tom wrote. Heck!, the auction was over! David was the "high bid,..." AKA the "winner" and paid the hammer price. So, why isn't the fan David's? Two are to be blamed. The first is the post- auction "renege" instigator. The second is the seller for not following through on the auction terms. |
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Steve Cunningham Administrator 
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As I have said many times, EBay auctions end early for one reason, greed. The seller is offered more than they think it will bring. The bidder wants to buy it for less than he thinks it’s worth |
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Jim Kovar AFCA Member
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Steve Cunningham wrote: As I have said many times, eBay auctions end early for one reason, greed. This auction was not ended early. Steve Cunningham wrote: ...seller [reneger]... ...bidder [post-auction instigating interloper]... Scum,... both! |
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Don Tener Guest
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Jim Kovar wrote: Steve Cunningham wrote:Totally agree Jim.As I have said many times, eBay auctions end early for one reason, greed. |
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Andrew Block Guest
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Well this came to bite the interloper in the posterior. It seems that the attention brought by interloping caused Mr. Greedy Seller to renege on THAT deal for the price being too low as the fan is "rare" and "valuable" thanks to outside parties now taking an interest. Supposedly another AFCA member is now the owner. We shall see. |
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Jeff Whitfield AFCA Member 
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I don't know the parties involved nor do I care for the exhaust fan in the ad. That fan is valuable? How? The fan looks to me like it was pulled out of the men's restroom of a decaying bus station. I wouldn't give more than $20.00, at best. I would also want a little something extra with that fan. But ... Beauty, I suppose, is in the eye of the beholder. Last edited on Thu Dec 27th, 2018 11:30 pm by Jeff Whitfield |
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Austin Ko Guest
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Don Tener wrote: Austin Ko wrote:Then David should be able to leave a big fat negative for that sale. I would have contacted ebay over this. The problem new or dumb sellers dont realize is that ebay does not care at all about the seller. They only care about the customer and will side with them 100% of the time wether they are in the wrong or right. I would contact them about this because you can actually be booted off of ebay for this or at least suspended.Ebay seller was in the wrong. No ebay seller should be ending auctions early for any offer. It hurts business and bars people from bidding on your stuff in the future as they dont want to deal with your poor business practices. Also when people send their “best offer” to end the auction early its 99% of the time lower then what the item will sell for as an auction. I actually ignore these people or offer the item for their offer plus a 400 dollar end the auction early fee to mess with them. Also I am pretty sure you can leave a neg for a transaction HE canceled because you have to agree to the cancelation. I would take a closer look. He definetly needs a neg. I’ll probably be blocking the true buyer as well because I am sure he is like the other ebay vultures.The seller did not end it early. He refunded Davids money because someone contacted him after the auction was over, before it was in the mail, and offered him more money. |
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Matthew Albach AFCA Member 
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This happened 2 times different AFCA members This will not keep people Some will flee of this I think some policy’s need to be placed in to keep the peace between collectors from getting item stolen underneath . Tom is absolutely correct will give AFCA a bad name and feel lack of trust. |
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Michael Rathberger Guest 
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Matthew Albach wrote: This happened 2 times different AFCA members This will not keep people
So, if it's that big of a deal -- it's been going on forever BTW -- why harbor the individuals and allow this to become about the AFCA when it's in fact about 2 people in the AFCA who can be summarliy dismissed at the boards discretion? |
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Don Tener Guest
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Michael Rathberger wrote: Matthew Albach wrote:I totally agree. I know who one of the members is. But I do not know who did this particular action. But THEY know who they are. Maybe the AFCA board should put a rule in place that prohibits this type of action. and if proven, then that member would be banned. I like that idea!This happened 2 times different AFCA members This will not keep people |
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George Durbin AFCA Member 
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Don Tener wrote: Michael Rathberger wrote:Matthew Albach wrote:I totally agree. I know who one of the members is. But I do not know who did this particular action. But THEY know who they are. Maybe the AFCA board should put a rule in place that prohibits this type of action. and if proven, then that member would be banned. I like that idea!This happened 2 times different AFCA members This will not keep people While I agree completely with what you say, it would be very unmanageable... Our board works hard at keeping things simple on this forum... As long as names are not mentioned here, we seem to do a good job of outing the wrong doers through pm's and fan meets... So we are wary of those doing these things... Geo... |
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Steve Cunningham Administrator
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When the AFCA set up Ethics early on, we made the decision not to be involved in any auctions. People then got upset if another member was bidding on an Ebay auction of an item they wanted. |
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Matthew Albach AFCA Member
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what I find troubling is that members who share there excitement. With other members what they won and want all the information on a fan . Then suddenly they lost that fan to a fellow member went underneath to get what that other member had that’s just plan evil . Can you imagine the anger , hurt . What that member went thru they trusted this site for information instead got it taken away . If nothing is done there will be no sharing on fans hate to see that happen. I have meet some wonderful people on the AFCA want it to stay that way. But we must protect each other and this club from this type of behavior. Last edited on Sat Dec 29th, 2018 03:00 am by Matthew Albach |
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Lawrence Smith AFCA Member
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George & Steve, I take exception to the comment this board does a good job of outing the wrong doers, one recent case the board chose to delete the whole thing saying it was not an AFCA issue, These 2 would never have met, if this AFCA board did not promote the background story on the supposed restorer. I do not agree with the person missing $$ & fans that giving so freely was wise. But saying the AFCA had nothing to do with it is dead wrong(deleting the story also gives false security on this site). As for the another personal incident, that snake is quite active & supposedly a respected AFCA member here & is all over the AFCA facebook account- -so I'm not sure how he is being outed by the AFCA. |
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George Durbin AFCA Member
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Hi Lawrence! By "we" I mean the members of the AFCA... The board has nothing in this and "outs" no one... The board does a great job within what they control... The board has no rules for Ebay other than how sales are posted on the forum... Our ethics guy is Bill Fanum and there is only so much he can do... There are elections coming up and if you think you can make a difference please run for board... You will be welcomed as all are who get the votes... Geo... Last edited on Sat Dec 29th, 2018 04:52 am by George Durbin |
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Lawrence Smith AFCA Member
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Thanks George, at this time I do not think I would have the correct temperament for that position. Also 2019 I'm going to try & evaluate my collection possibly thinning some out. I have too many & I hate looking at nice fans in a garage setting. |
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George Durbin AFCA Member
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Lawrence Smith wrote: Thanks George, at this time I do not think I would have the correct temperament for that position. Also 2019 I'm going to try & evaluate my collection possibly thinning some out. I have too many & I hate looking at nice fans in a garage setting. Lawrence you can talk to me or any other board member any time you have concerns or questions... I may not have the answer you need but I will try and get it for you... As VP I do not get to vote nor does the President... We do have input in the discussions before things are voted on... Like the government it takes a while to make things happen and that is on purpose so we dont jump into things until they are thought out a bit... I watched President Eisenhower in a speach say getting things down in government is like 2 elephants making love... Its done on a high level, with lots of grunting and groaning and it takes 2 years to get results... Geo... |
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Bill Arfmann AFCA Member
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 I like Ike |
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Tom Dreesen AFCA Member
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I will probably throw my hat in the ring for Board again. That said, this is nothing that the AFCA can have any direct control over. This was not a transaction between 2 AFCA members. There is only so much AFCA can do. We cannot control the dealings of members outside of our BST page. Can we kick out members for bad practices? Maybe. I would tentatively say yes. |
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David Allen Guest
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So, the seller now thinks he's going to get $1200 for this fan, without putting any effort or money into it. People never cease to amaze me with their small mindedness. https://www.ebay.com/itm/352568732880  Ps - notice the red text "A seller you've bought from" on the screenshot? That's from the sale I won that he reneged on. |
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Edward Kowalke Guest
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have you left appropriate feedback for this seller? |
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Don Tener Guest
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That is just SAD! If that other person never got involved this would have never happened. Now the seller is completely delusional! |
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Jim Kovar AFCA Member
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Don Tener wrote: ...the seller is completely delusional! And the jerk seller used a picture I posted on the forum in another thread.  The audacity!... Attached Image (viewed 948 times): |
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Andrew Block Guest
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Ouch, poor fan is going to rot away at that price. |
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Steve Sherwood AFCA Member 
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The board has nothing to do with this, it's an e bay auction. The seller has nothing to do with the AFCA, the member who made the offer did not do it within the AFCA. I do feel the AFCA should not be involved in anything outside of the AFCA. They can ban the the person who made the offer, but that will not stop this person from doing the same ting in the future. This kind of thing happens all the time on e bay. I guess if you play the e bay game, this is going to happen sometimes. E bay does not care, they only want the fees from the seller. |
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Steve Sherwood AFCA Member
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Last edited on Thu Jan 17th, 2019 12:01 am by Steve Sherwood |
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George Durbin AFCA Member
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Steve Sherwood wrote: The board has nothing to do with this, it's an e bay auction. The seller has nothing to do with the AFCA, the member who made the offer did not do it within the AFCA. I do feel the AFCA should not be involved in anything outside of the AFCA. They can ban the the person who made the offer, but that will not stop this person from doing the same ting in the future. This kind of thing happens all the time on e bay. I guess if you play the e bay game, this is going to happen sometimes. E bay does not care, they only want the fees from the seller. Hi Steve! Ditto's on your post... The AFCA only handles things regarding the AFCA... We do not have a means to handle conflicts like this... The only thing we can do for members with conflicts within the club is to mediate the issue... If that fails it is all we can do and hope cooler heads prevail... Geo... |
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Chris A. Campbell Guest
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If the seller borrowed Jim K.’s photo from this discussion I am sure they now realize it will now be hard to sell even at original price. Original post was in regards to the seller and continuing to blame the other buyer after David clarified the issue is just illogical as well as the comments pertaining to arbitrating private transactions as a burectratic body through 3rd party platforms such as Ebay. |
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Jim Kovar AFCA Member
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Chris A. Campbell wrote: If the seller borrowed Jim K.’s photo... ...it [the fan] will now be hard to sell... Thanks,... I think?  |
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Chris A. Campbell Guest
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Jim Kovar wrote: Chris A. Campbell wrote:If the seller borrowed Jim K.’s photo... ...it [the fan] will now be hard to sell... Seller would be reading the discussion. |
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Don Tener Guest
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Chris A. Campbell wrote: Jim Kovar wrote:Maybe the Idiot will get a clue and bring the price back to a reasonable level but I doubt it lol.Chris A. Campbell wrote:If the seller borrowed Jim K.’s photo... ...it [the fan] will now be hard to sell... |
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Christopher Harding AFCA Member 
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Wow, sorry this happened David. Unfair and unethical behavior on both of their accounts. Chris David Allen wrote: So, the seller now thinks he's going to get $1200 for this fan, without putting any effort or money into it. People never cease to amaze me with their small mindedness. |
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Larry White Guest
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Once bids have been made, on eBay, there are very few allowable ways to end an auction early. The item was broken. The item can not be found. The item is no longer available. The latter is to provide for items listed on multiple sites and sold on the other site. Side deals off ebay between a seller and a buyer are expressly forbidden. Based on the discussion so far I could not have concluded which of these options were used to cancel the auction. According to Ebay rules this type of behavior, if proven, will cast the seller his account for life. File a grievance and open a case on this. Ebay will get to the bottom of this... |
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Don Tener Guest
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Larry White wrote: Once bids have been made, on eBay, there are very few allowable ways to end an auction early. The item was broken. The item can not be found. The item is no longer available. The latter is to provide for items listed on multiple sites and sold on the other site. Side deals off ebay between a seller and a buyer are expressly forbidden. Based on the discussion so far I could not have concluded which of these options were used to cancel the auction. According to Ebay rules this type of behavior, if proven, will cast the seller his account for life. File a grievance and open a case on this. Ebay will get to the bottom of this...The auction was never canceled. After the auction ended another person contacted the seller before he shipped it and offered him more money. He then refunded David's money so he could sell it to the member that made him the offer "After" he already sold it to David. |
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Royal Norman AFCA Member 
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http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Westinghouse-Fan-Western-Electric/183641174286?hash=item2ac1ddf10e:g:fSEAAOSwKXhcQQHz&redirect=mobile Now there's this.  Last edited on Sun Jan 20th, 2019 07:04 am by Royal Norman |
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Jim Kovar AFCA Member
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Royal Norman wrote: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Westinghouse-Fan-Western-Electric/183641174286?hash=item2ac1ddf10e:g:fSEAAOSwKXhcQQHz&redirect=mobile Dang it, Royal! I was gunna snipe that. Now everyone will know about it.   |
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Royal Norman AFCA Member
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Sorry |
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Lane Shirey AFCA Member 
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If I saw that Westinghouse at a flea market I’d consider buying it if I could walk away with it for $30. There are quite a few good parts if you need them and what appears to be a decent ilg blade..maybe a little higher but certainly not $175 plus shipping. I always wonder if they have a clue it’s a frankenfan. Also the phrase “ it powers on but the blade doesn’t turn” hmmm... I guess it doesn’t actually power on then, does it? Anyhow, I’m always entertained by sellers like this that stretch the truth just to the brink of misrepresentation. |
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David Allen Guest
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Lane Shirey wrote: If I saw that Westinghouse at a flea market I’d consider buying it if I could walk away with it for $30. There are quite a few good parts if you need them and what appears to be a decent ilg blade..maybe a little higher but certainly not $175 plus shipping. I always wonder if they have a clue it’s a frankenfan. A WestingIlgErnHouse.. Now I've seen it all. They must have raided the scrap iron bin behind a fan repair shop.... |
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Don Tener Guest
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David Allen wrote: Lane Shirey wrote:If I saw that Westinghouse at a flea market I’d consider buying it if I could walk away with it for $30. There are quite a few good parts if you need them and what appears to be a decent ilg blade..maybe a little higher but certainly not $175 plus shipping. I always wonder if they have a clue it’s a frankenfan.  |
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Larry White Guest
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Tom, how do you know it was a AFCA member? |
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Louis Weedman AFCA Member 
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Boy, I really feel your pain David...that was not a good way for the seller to do business. This is exactly why I rarely buy antique fans on ebay, although it may be worth the risk sometimes. I usually just drive to meets, or visit collectors/estates who are selling a few things. I would probably do ebay more if I didn't find enough just from going on roadtrips. Just picked up a couple brass fans yesterday from a seller about 2 hours from my house. Last edited on Sun Jan 20th, 2019 11:43 pm by Louis Weedman |
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George Durbin AFCA Member
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Hi Louis! Well? Wut did ya get? Geo... |
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Steve Sherwood AFCA Member
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Larry White wrote: Once bids have been made, on eBay, there are very few allowable ways to end an auction early. The item was broken. The item can not be found. The item is no longer available. The latter is to provide for items listed on multiple sites and sold on the other site. Side deals off ebay between a seller and a buyer are expressly forbidden. Based on the discussion so far I could not have concluded which of these options were used to cancel the auction. According to Ebay rules this type of behavior, if proven, will cast the seller his account for life. File a grievance and open a case on this. Ebay will get to the bottom of this...E bay may have rules but they are hard to enforce, The origianl buyer got his money back... E bay does not care anymore. E bay is about making commissions on sales, nothing else. |
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