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Diehl Badges  Rate Topic 
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 Posted: Sat Nov 21st, 2020 11:02 am
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Rick Powell
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Looking into having Diehl 12” cage badges reproduced and trying to determine the need/want for them.  The cost per badge will be reflective of the quantity.  If you are interested please let me know how many you would like, I am hopeful the price will be comparable to the badges Donald Coleman sells for less than $40.00 each.





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 Posted: Sat Nov 21st, 2020 12:11 pm
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Michael Rathberger
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Put me down for 1..

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 Posted: Sat Nov 21st, 2020 07:53 pm
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Geoff Dunaway
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I'll go for 5 with hopes the hunt is good this year.    :clap:

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 Posted: Sat Nov 21st, 2020 08:18 pm
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David A Cherry
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Being a retired tool and die maker, The cost of making the die alone will be expensive.... More than likely you will never recoup your original investment, This is why I have not done it.. and I have a friend who has his own CNC machine and a 3-D scanner... 

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 Posted: Sun Nov 22nd, 2020 11:03 am
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Rick Powell
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David aside from your remarks of doubt do you want any?  I am fully aware of the drawbacks and am planning on forging ahead as they are not available.

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 Posted: Sun Nov 22nd, 2020 02:10 pm
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Tony Clayton
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Put me down for 2

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 Posted: Sun Nov 22nd, 2020 02:35 pm
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Louis Luu
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Last edited on Sun Nov 22nd, 2020 04:14 pm by Louis Luu

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 Posted: Mon Nov 23rd, 2020 11:24 am
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Rick Powell
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I will be working with Louis Luu to produce the badges in the next few weeks, I will report back on our progress and viability of producing them at a reasonable cost.  If this goes well I will explore reproducing ECK and Jandus. 

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 Posted: Mon Nov 23rd, 2020 06:15 pm
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Louis Luu
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Here is a sample of the parts I casted in steel and bronze.  Double levers, ECK struts, miscellaneous part...doohicky to hold the ECK motor.

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 Posted: Mon Nov 23rd, 2020 07:35 pm
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Tony Clayton
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Outstanding work Louis.

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 Posted: Mon Nov 23rd, 2020 07:37 pm
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Louis Luu
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Thanks Tony...now to learn how to make thin stamp badges. I got some ideas.

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 Posted: Mon Nov 23rd, 2020 08:04 pm
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Rick Powell
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Need to regress 120 years and see what happens 

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 Posted: Tue Nov 24th, 2020 05:42 pm
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Louis Luu
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The Jandus is actually easy to cast...thick enough....unless there I am unaware of different types. I have the C-frame one.

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 Posted: Tue Nov 24th, 2020 05:43 pm
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Louis Luu
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I will be making the ECK...as I need one myself.

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 Posted: Tue Nov 24th, 2020 07:25 pm
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Chris A. Campbell
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Louis Luu wrote: I will be making the ECK...as I need one myself.

You can count me in for 1.

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 Posted: Tue Nov 24th, 2020 09:37 pm
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Michael Aidinovich
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Count me for 1 on an Eck badge.

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 Posted: Tue Nov 24th, 2020 10:40 pm
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Richard Daugird
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Put me down for one as well, I don't need it at the moment but it's for the better good.

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 Posted: Wed Nov 25th, 2020 07:15 pm
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Louis Luu
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Last edited on Mon Nov 30th, 2020 02:32 pm by Louis Luu

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 Posted: Wed Nov 25th, 2020 07:23 pm
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Rick Powell
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Louis they need to be put in a punch press to achieved the necessary force to form them, I have access to them but pretty sure if you check around the Redlands area you will locate one.

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 Posted: Wed Nov 25th, 2020 07:38 pm
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Louis Luu
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I'm stubborn...still want to give it a try. I can make the two halves...interlocking. Would like to see how a press like this would work out on the badge. I know the big companies use the punch press because of efficiency/time. I still think something like this for a home hobbyist would work?

I figured I would make two types of mold. The first set of mold will be used to give the overall shape. Followed by the second mold which can be used for the final detail for pressing the two halves together....not explaining myself very well.

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 Posted: Wed Nov 25th, 2020 07:49 pm
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Louis Luu
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Pressing thin brass sheets should not require a huge amount of heavy machinery? I figured brass sheet is soft enough to allow something like the tool I posted to press easily? The flange edge for the disc will need to be round so as to not put too much stress/tear the brass sheet during pressing? Again...not explaining myself very well.

At least with the ECK badge...just a dome disc...easy enough to press. I will give the ECK a try first.

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 Posted: Wed Nov 25th, 2020 07:51 pm
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Rick Powell
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Louis I hope it works, stubbornness is how much of everything we use started out. I might suggest you look into a hydraulic bench top press, I got one from Harbor Freight that’s rated at 6 tons that does a good job of squishing things. It takes approximately 6.76 tons of force to punch a 3/4” hole in 1/8” brass, a 6 ton press may form it? Will be a fun project 

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 Posted: Wed Nov 25th, 2020 07:54 pm
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Richard Daugird
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I have a 20 ton press, if you want I could try to press them for you.

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 Posted: Wed Nov 25th, 2020 09:19 pm
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Louis Luu
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Thanks Rick...I'll look up Harbor Freight. Richard...I might take you up on it. I'll try first with that whatever you call it...the thing with the wheel on top and press and made of cast iron...Made in USA...should be good enough.

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 Posted: Wed Nov 25th, 2020 09:20 pm
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Stephen Chew
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I would like 1 Diehl and 1 Eck.If you make the small Jandus badge? I would like to have 1.

Last edited on Wed Nov 25th, 2020 09:24 pm by Stephen Chew

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 Posted: Wed Nov 25th, 2020 09:22 pm
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Louis Luu
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I'll do the Diehl first instead of the ECK...looks challenging.

Last edited on Mon Nov 30th, 2020 07:58 am by Louis Luu

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 Posted: Mon Nov 30th, 2020 07:36 am
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Louis Luu
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Thought I go ahead and document the process for those who are interested.  I did a very light cleaning...sodium hydroxide....none reactive with metal to dissolve away any hard grimes due to oil/dirt buildup.  Metal does not react with basic solution...what I learn from chemistry.  Then I proceeded to do a light cleaning with soft toothbrush and toothpaste mix with a bit of baking soda (mostly basic/buffer) does not react with metal.  This gave me a better view of the debris...solder that needed to be removed.  The solder needs to be remove from the underside to make a proper press...put pressure against the underside when sandwich to the top plate.  Without removing the solder...this would not put pressure in the crevices to give the front side fine detail.  I proceeded to gently remove the solder using a jewelers file under a magnifying glass.  Still have a bit more to remove.  Also, there is a dent.  This is not noticeable when staring straight down at the badge but is noticeable if tilted....also feels "bumpy" with finger.  I will push this out...thanks Rick for the permission.  While doing this...I felt the badge reminded me of another badge...related?  It just had the same feel...hard to describe.  I have not come across another badge by this company so have no reference.  The tag "J. Stone" does belong to a motor I currently own...wall mount with the switch on the base...belongs to a train?












Last edited on Mon Nov 30th, 2020 08:02 am by Louis Luu

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 Posted: Mon Nov 30th, 2020 07:40 am
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Louis Luu
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I also found a press I am happy with not from harbor freight.  It does 6600 pounds.  Also...perfect for workbench.




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 Posted: Mon Nov 30th, 2020 07:55 am
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Louis Luu
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The "J. Stone" tag was a horrible mess. I wish I had taken pictures of what it looked like before I carefully press out the bumps and a soft hammer against a soft rubber/silicon mat followed by using jeweler pliers to round the edge. It is neat but extremely thin and fragile. I think I would like to make that badge...does anyone else need a J. stone badge? The Diehl still retains its brass look...I was using white fluorescent light to take pictures...no worries.

Last edited on Mon Nov 30th, 2020 07:55 am by Louis Luu

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 Posted: Mon Nov 30th, 2020 07:57 am
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Louis Luu
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Stephen...is there a different Jandus badge?  Do you have pictures?

Stephen Chew wrote: I would like 1 Diehl and 1 Eck.If you make the small Jandus badge? I would like to have 1.

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 Posted: Mon Nov 30th, 2020 11:09 am
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Michael Rathberger
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I will take a J. Stone badge if you make them.

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 Posted: Mon Nov 30th, 2020 01:24 pm
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Louis Luu
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Rick...I just noticed the badge you sent me is not the one your posted in your first post...at the very top.  Your badge reminds me of mine?  Same company or relation?  Notice the dimples/textures?








Last edited on Mon Nov 30th, 2020 01:41 pm by Louis Luu

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 Posted: Mon Nov 30th, 2020 11:31 pm
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Ralf Augenstein
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I would take one

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 Posted: Mon Nov 30th, 2020 11:43 pm
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Rick Powell
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Louis, the first picture I sent of the Diehl badge is from a 16” the badge I sent is from a 12”, I also have a badge from a 10”.  I sent the 12” thinking that the size would be the most common/needed.

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 Posted: Tue Dec 1st, 2020 12:01 am
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Louis Luu
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Thanks Rick...I will do yours first. I will work on it some more this weekend...I work Monday through Saturday.

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 Posted: Tue Dec 1st, 2020 01:32 am
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Louis Luu
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Been researching types of brass used in badge making. Does anyone know of Soft annealed Brass 260...looks like a good candidate for pressing without tearing.

https://metalpress.onlinemetals.com/soft-annealed-brass/

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 Posted: Tue Dec 1st, 2020 02:01 am
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William Dunlap
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I'm sure that would work, but nearly any brass would work, too, I think. All brass tends to anneal to a very soft state when done properly.
260 is soft already before annealing. Annealing 260 brass will make it useless for structural applications, like blades.
But it will work harden when you press the badge, so I think it is a good choice. You could also anneal some standard 260 brass yourself. It just takes a propane torch.
Interesting project....If you make GE badges, I'll likely be interested in those.
Cheers,
Bill

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 Posted: Tue Dec 1st, 2020 02:04 am
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Chris A. Campbell
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Louis Luu wrote: Been researching types of brass used in badge making. Does anyone know of Soft annealed Brass 260...looks like a good candidate for pressing without tearing.

https://metalpress.onlinemetals.com/soft-annealed-brass/


Louis, what about 360?

Last edited on Tue Dec 1st, 2020 02:11 am by Chris A. Campbell

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 Posted: Tue Dec 1st, 2020 02:11 am
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Louis Luu
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Chris...All this is new to me. I appreciate your advice and will keep that in mind. The badge I fix was bendable by just putting pressure with fingers/thumb. I have no idea what kind of softness is required...thought I ask. On the opposite spectrum...Rick's badge is stiff and hard. I would settle for something in between. Just trying to figure out what is best for home pressing using mediocre hydraulic press...good enough?

William...thank you for the feedback.  Since it is annealed...maybe it is soft enough and will become stiffer once worked on?  I have no experience with this kind of stuff.  I am however excited about the project.  Never occurred to me until Rick asked.  I figured I give it a try.  Worst that can happen is a lose some money but gain some experience and learn something new.  That is how I started making wax molding thanks to Don Tener...I had the silly idea of casting the top cover of the Kidney box out of clear plastic so I can watch the gears rotate...I know...silly....but I get excited by stupid stuff like that.


Last edited on Tue Dec 1st, 2020 02:17 am by Louis Luu

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 Posted: Tue Dec 1st, 2020 02:27 am
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Chris A. Campbell
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Bill has worked with brass much more than I have and would know more tricks.

In my situation bending 260 .015 is not providing an attractive enough corner so switching to 360 which ironically arrived today and sitting on the counter still in packaging.

On a separate situation working with 3/32 260 flat rod. Bends greater than 90 become difficult and with leverage can get 180 bend although once metal snapped. Annealed cherry red with MAPP it is softer and can get 180 degree bend but do have edges flare out.

The 260 is McMurray brass. Other manufacturers may have a more workable 260.

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